God is racist, religion professor says

Anthea-ButlerAn associate professor of religious studies at the University of Pennsylvania said the not-guilty verdict of George Zimmerman means one sure thing: God is a white racist.

The fulmination is part of an epic blog rant by Anthea Butler, an associate professor of religious studies at the University of Pennsylvania and a frequent guest at media outlets including MSNBC and CNN.

Anthea Butler, who teaches within the Department of Religious Studies, wrote in Religious Dispatches: “God ain’t good all of the time. In fact, sometimes, God is not for us. As a black woman in a nation that has taken too many pains to remind me that I am not a white man, and am not capable of taking care of my reproductive rights, or my voting rights, I know that this American god ain’t my god. As a matter of fact, I think he’s a white racist god with a problem.”

Ms. Butler also wrote that American Christians — some of the “biggest racists” — actually fear minorities, Breitbart reported.

Butler says she has now concluded that God is “a white racist god with a problem” who “is carrying a gun and stalking young black men.”“When George Zimmerman told [Fox News host] Sean Hannity that it was God’s will that he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, he was diving right into what most good conservative Christians in America think right now,” she wrote, as Breitbart reported. “Whatever makes them protected, safe and secure, is worth it at the expense of the black and brown people they fear.”

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132 Responses to God is racist, religion professor says

  1. Is Women Has No Brains Tell Her To Back To The Bible King James Bible. P.S. But She Must Repent Of Her Sin And Turn Back To The Living God

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  2. xississ says:

    How this lady ever got to be a professor of anything is totally amazing.

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  3. Deborah Pembleton says:

    How very, very sad. I pray she will see how false that is. We need to pray that she will come to the truth of who God really is.

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  4. Judy says:

    what she means is as a blinded black woman…she doesnt know God because her own wisdom has blinded her to who God really is…im sure she doesnt study the word of God because she sees that as a white religion….God saves people not based on color..but On the blood of His son Jesus Christ and those who would believe on Him…Im sure she overlooked that though seeing how "wise" she is..

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  5. Judy says:

    Amen Deborah

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  6. Kate says:

    Wow… I'm not surprised that she teaches "religion" because religion and relationship are way different. It says from one blood God created all man. Acts 17:26. Also God does not have favorites there for he can not be racist.( Rom 2:11) People want to blame all their problems and issues on others, she wants to blame it on God…. sad, because everyone will give account for their actions and their words, doesn't matter if you believe it or not, like it or not….its just the way it is. I believe this is a media driven racist card, I'm sick of watching and reading about it. This country needs to come together before we are totally destroyed from the inside out… sad to watch it fall apart…

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  7. James says:

    I have come to believe that those who cry discrimination are those who have big issues and are afraid to face them. To blame others for ones failures is to say they are very weak and have no insight on how to get over the hatred and bitterness that we had nothing to do with.
    It is time for this lady to get saved, read the only true Word there is and grow in Jesus Christ.
    When I hear other's going on about discrimination, all it does is push me away from them, and it only results with the accuser being more bitter, hateful, and alone more so.
    Jesus Christ was a Jew, not white like me, nor black like blacks, but a Jew full of love who died a very painful death for each and everyone's sins, and everyone regardless of their race.
    I thank God that my God, if he has any disability, is that He is color blind.

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  8. . says:

    So, Affirmative Action as put a traitor and criminal in the White House and this fool in academia. So I guess "standards of education are no longer more than useless if she managed to achive PHD level….

    Obviously God has a sense of humor!

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  9. . says:

    So, Affirmative Action as put a traitor and criminal in the White House and this fool in academia. So I guess "standards of education" are no longer more than useless if
    SHE managed to achive PHD level….

    Obviously God has a sense of humor, however warped it my be!

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    • Ann says:

      I seriously doubt God is laughing over such as this. God does have a sense of humor however He is a God of justice as well and this sort of thing will not go unpunished if she does not repent.

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  10. Ann says:

    What do you mean you wonder how she ever got to be a professor. Our Universities are full of just the like of her.

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  11. Steve says:

    She's only an associate professor, for now. Her 15 minutes of fame will get her promoted.

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  12. Tamara says:

    What right does the clay have to question the potter. If he is a white racist and his salvation is offered to ALL they you should prove how truly a strong black woman you are by achieving salvation. Be triumphant over the issues God places in your life rather than whining about your lot.

    FYI: No one who has any intelligence listens to anyone who uses the race card crutch. It is a cop-out and is a sign of weakness.

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  13. Ima Believer says:

    I don't serve a white god or a black god. I serve the Creator of heaven and earth. The God and Father of my Lord Jesus Christ. In Him there is no race. Galatians 3:28

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  14. Questioning says:

    I have to admit that I've asked the same questions that this professor has brought up. For instance, the largest impact on a demographic group from Katrina effected poor African Americans. I know New Orleans was predominantly African American, yet even within the city, as a group they were hit the hardest.

    Infant mortality rates for African Americans is more than double that for other ethnic groups.

    Incarceration rates are also higher. African Americans make up about 13% of the U.S. population, while they make up almost 3 times that (37%) of the prison population.

    It seems that the "God" in America has a serious disliking of African Americans.

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    • Ima Believer says:

      The basis of your argument that God is racist is ridiculous.

      People living in substandard housing in a flood zone, where hurricanes are a high probability will be impacted the most when the hurricane hits.

      People go to jail because they commit crimes.

      Babies die for many reasons. The health of the mother, the quality pre-natal care/pediatric care, the nourishment received by the infant and the environment where the child is raised. Do you have all the facts to demonstrate that all these factors are equal among all ethnic groups?

      For example, having an abortion impacts the health of the mother and her ability to have a healthy baby in the future. It is a fact that in the U.S. black women have more abortions per capita than other women. Could that be one factor in explaining why infant mortality rates are higher for African Americans?

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      • Questioning says:

        "People living in substandard housing in a flood zone, where hurricanes are a high probability will be impacted the most when the hurricane hits." The point was more that the African American population had a larger percentage of their demographic affected.

        "People go to jail because they commit crimes." That's interesting, never heard of anyone innocent ever being imprisoned. I find it a bit hard to believe that people that make up 13% of the population commit almost 40% of the crime.

        "Babies die for many reasons. The health of the mother, the quality pre-natal care/pediatric care, the nourishment received by the infant and the environment where the child is raised. Do you have all the facts to demonstrate that all these factors are equal among all ethnic groups?"

        Then why does "God" persist in allowing the conditions that would continue to see African American babies die at a rate twice that of any other group? This isn't a one time phenomenon

        For example, having an abortion impacts the health of the mother and her ability to have a healthy baby in the future. It is a fact that in the U.S. black women have more abortions per capita than other women. Could that be one factor in explaining why infant mortality rates are higher for African Americans?

        I could understand that abortion may affect miscarriages, but to I think it's a stretch to suggest that abortion would cause the death of an already born infant.

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    • Judy Walker says:

      Have You read God's word and obeyed it? If not you have no right to question God..Read His word and ask Him to help you understand who He is..and even if all of your questions are not answered…know one thing…God is a just and righteous God! No evil dwells in HIm…..We live in a fallen world because Adam brought sin into the entire human race…I don't understand all the reasons why God allows things that He does…but I know He is faithful and when something happens there is always a reason…maybe unknown to us…but He knows exactly what He is doing and why! He doesnt have to disclose everything to us humans…but we are commanded to trust and obey Him even when we dont understand….not strike out against God like this so called professor…who speaks ignorantly of God…she doesnt know Him!

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      • Questioning says:

        I think that sometimes we attribute things to "God" that aren't anything supernatural.

        Consider Westboro Baptist Church. They've claimed that American soldiers dying is "God's Will" or "Judgement". The bible has been used to justify all manner of injustices and atrocities.

        Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

        Aren't you supposed to test and discern?

        The professor later elaborated on her comment. She said that “See, I was coming after their god. I was not coming after the God of the scriptures, the God that we know, of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I was coming after the god they worship, Mammon; the god they worship, racism; the god they worship, white supremacy… Thank God I got a great institution that takes care of me. I have tenure. I can’t get fired.” http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/24/ivy-le… It sounds like she's familiar with the bible.

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      • Ima Believer says:

        "I think that sometimes we attribute things to “God” that aren’t anything supernatural."

        And yet you claim that God is out to destroy a group of people because of the color of their skin. And you work very hard at building a wall of distortions and conspiracies to defend your absurd conclusion.

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      • Questioning says:

        "And yet you claim that God is out to destroy a group of people because of the color of their skin. And you work very hard at building a wall of distortions and conspiracies to defend your absurd conclusion."

        I never said "God is out to destroy a group of people because of the color of their skin"

        I said that " 'God' in America seems to have a serious disliking of African Americans" There is quite a difference between dislike and destroy. I seriously dislike wind chimes that my mom has on her porch, but I don't destroy them. I have to power and capability to, but I choose not to. Unlike God, I have no control over the wind that might twist and tangle them, or cause them to fall.

        God, being omnipotent, would have control over things that could help, hinder, and affect the patterns that I mentioned.

        I didn't cite one simple incident, I mentioned several consistent and ongoing patterns,

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      • Judy Walker says:

        John 3:16
        King James Version (KJV)
        16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. God loves all equally! God isn't like a man nor does He think like a man…

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  15. Judy Walker says:

    God loves everyone equally….He made everyone different….so why would He choose to not like one group of people because of color when He is the one who made them that way….isn't your thinking foolish?

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    • Questioning says:

      As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Romans 9:13) That doesn't say "I love Jacob and Esau equally"

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      • Judy Walker says:

        Read the entire context of romans 9:13 ..its not talking about individuals there…read it! Keep in mind the context please..

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      • Questioning says:

        10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

        11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

        12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

        13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

        Here's the context, it's referring to how "Israel" was chosen. That's what election means. If one person or group is "Chosen" that implies that at best another person or group at best isn't "Chosen" at worst they are "Rejected". For example, if I have limited space in my class, I can choose to let some students add, but not all. At best those not chosen weren't chosen , at worst I rejected them.

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  16. Questioning says:

    Have you read the bible? Other than the parts that are nice to think about? There's a lot more to it than just love and forgiveness.

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  17. lyn says:

    Hello Judy,

    I have something that might help you understand John 3:16 better, it is a teaching of this verse using Greek grammar. I hope this will deepen your understanding of John 3:16 – http://youtu.be/BDxRss_v78A

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    • Judy Walker says:

      I don't need a video to help me understand John 3:16… The Holy Spirit made it very clear to me what it means…and the rest of context…I am not a calvinist..and I disagree strongly with calvinist distortion of the character of God..I know the arguments of calvinist…and they are dead wrong on interpretation of God's word…

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      • Judy Walker says:

        As a matter of fact I believe that calvinist present another gospel which paul in Galatians said…1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

        7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

        8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

        9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

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      • lyn says:

        Judy,

        this isn't about Calvin, as a matter of fact, the doctrines of grace were taught by the Apostles, and by Christ Himself. Concerning election, Christ states -"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you," John 15:16
        Concerning depravity, Christ states "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:" John 6:44
        Concerning limited atonement, Christ states "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Matthew 20:28 He also prays for His elect, as seen in John 17:9 "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine:"

        As far as irresistible grace goes, Christ states " My Father, which hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." John 10:29 This also verifies perseverance of the saints.
        Another solid verse concerning God appointing some to eternal life is found in Acts 13:48 " And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

        You may be surprised to know this, 'The New Testament was not written in English, any less the King's English. It was written in Greek. And, there is no Greek equivalent for the English word "whosoever." The Apostle John did not write, "Whosoever believeth." That word construction was never part of his original letter. What he did write was, "pas ho pisteuoon." The two little Greek words "pas ho" are literally translated "all the." "Pisteuoon" is a form of the word "pisteuo," the verb form of "pistis," or "faith."
        The King James translators' choice of the single word "whosoever" to translate the two-word phrase "pas ho" was not an entirely errant decision. In the King's English, "whosoever" did not have the connotation of randomness or free choice that it has come to represent in contemporary English. Originally, "whosoever" designated a particular group – as in "whosoever possesses these certain qualities." In this case, the group included only those who believed, as opposed to those who did not.
        But, more to the point, "pas ho" simply does not mean "anyone at all who chooses to exercise their choice." It specifically means "all the" and it serves to designate a particular group of people who share a defining characteristic -"faith" or "believing."
        So, when we read, "whosoever believeth," we must understand that what John literally wrote was "all the believing." In other words, the benefits of God's love are not indiscriminately available to anyone who chooses to possess them. Only the particular group – "all the believing" – are gifted with eternal life.' Jim McClarty of salvationbygracedotorg

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      • Judy Walker says:

        What you don't seem to be able to understand is that man has a free will ..He can choose to receive God's free gift or reject it…God did not create man as a puppet as you and the rest of calvinist would have people to believe….God made us in His image…we have the ability to choose or reject! Hebrews 3:7,8 ; Hebrews 3:14; hebrews 4:1; hebrews 4:6. look at this verse 2 peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. In that verse notice who "bought" them…it was the Lord..He shed His blood for all..even those who deny Him! The verses there in hebrews makes up the context for hebrews 2:9. The latter part of Hebrews 2:9 says He(Christ) that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Look at Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? In Hebrews 10:29 here they were never saved in this verse, yet they were purchased and sanctified by Christ's blood!
        look at 2 peter 3:9
        The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
        Now that would make no sense at all if the elect has already been chosen by God…they cant possibly perish if they were already elected…the bible is clear that it is not God's desire for any man to perish! God means exactly what He says so clearly…why try to distort the clear meaning of His word?? one more verse…1 timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. All men in this verse means just that…all men! not elect as you calvinist try to interpret it to mean…All means all!

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      • lyn says:

        Judy,
        Ephesians 2:1, 5 states we are dead in sin, in bondage to it like a slave, as Christ says in John 8:34. There isn't one part of mankind that isn't corrupted by sin, and that includes the will.
        In Jeremiah 17:9 it says 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is desperately sick: who can know it?' The heart is from the Hebrew word lêb and is defined as 'inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding; mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory, inclination, resolution, determination (of will).' – From Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Definitions.
        Every part of the inner man, the mind, thoughts, will, is deceitful, which means 'crooked, deceitful, polluted.' The mind, thoughts, and will is also desperately sick, which means 'incurable'. God's own word teaches us that our inner selves are polluted and incurably sick with sin. There is no way anybody in this condition could rightly choose to follow Christ. I have already given you a few verses that state Christ chooses us, and yet, you call God a liar and say you do the choosing. Unregenerate sinners are dead in sin, they are not born again by their own power, but by God, who draws {John 6:44} regenerates {John 1:13} grants repentance to {2 Timothy 2:25} and gifts with faith {Ephesians 2:8-9}
        Here is another verse, from the word of the Lord, 'But we are bound to give thanks to God alway for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.' 2 Thessalonians 2:13
        How are sinners saved Judy? You must look to His word for the answer, 'for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, that no man should glory.' Ephesians 2:8-9
        God's own word states salvation is wrought by grace, it is a gift given by God to sinners. There are no verses in God's word that state sinners choose Christ. Again, I am NOT stating a teaching of Calvin, I have not given you quotes from him. I have given you truth from the word of the Lord.

        Concerning Hebrews 2:9, 'But we behold him who hath been made a little lower than the angels, even Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honour, that by the grace of God he should taste death for every man.'

        You need to understand this -"For every man." This rendering is quite misleading. "Anthropos," the Greek word for "man" is not in the verse at all. Thus, one of the principal texts relied upon by Arminians in their unscriptural contention for a general atonement vanishes into thin air. The Revised Version places the word "man" in italics to show that it is not found in the original. The Greek is "panta" and signifies "every one," that is, every one of those who form the subjects of the whole passage—every one of "the heirs of salvation" (Heb. 1:14), every one of the "sons" (Heb. 2:10), every one of the "brethren" (Heb. 2:11). We may say that this is the view of the passage taken by Drs. Gouge and J. Brown, by Saphir, and a host of others who might be mentioned. Theologically it is demanded by the "tasted death for every one," i.e., substitutionally, in the room of, that they might not. Hence, every one for whom He tasted death shall themselves never do so (see John 8:52), and this is true only of the people of God. from A. W. Pink

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      • Judy Walker says:

        It's not my opinion that calvinism is heretical….their teachings are in total contradiction to the word of God…U asked how man is saved…Ephesians 1:13 says In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
        John 5:24
        King James Version (KJV)
        24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. ohn 5:25
        King James Version (KJV)
        25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
        John 3:19-20 19And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved.
        The spiritually dead can hear and receive the word of God…he chooses not to because he loves his sin! They can indeed hear…we were also once dead in our trespasses and sins…I heard God and I believed Him….I chose…He didnt force grace on me…but his Kindness, mercy and grace lead to my repentance!

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    • Judy Walker says:

      The guy in that video…is presenting another gospel…one that Jesus did NOT present…nor the apostles…he, like john mcarthur ..john piper ….rc sproul..are presenting another Gospel!

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      • lyn says:

        How so Judy? Can you show, from God's word, the error of his teaching? When accusing, you must be prepared to defend your accusations with Scripture. Jim has gone into the Greek grammar and shown the somewhat faulty English translation of that Greek. Don't forget, the Bible was NOT written in English, and don't forget, the English language has changed since the KJV was translated.

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      • Judy Walker says:

        I can defend my beliefs and I am quite aware the bible was written in hebrew, greek and aramaic….maybe the calvinists arent aware of that because of how they change the meanings of words….I know all the calvinists arguments..Ive studies them..and they use verses out of context to support their strange doctrines to do it….I dont think this forum is the place for me to map all that out do you? I will give you one verse to show how they use verses out of context…Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. This verse as they would try to show u as a proof text that God hates individuals…when in fact this verse has nothing to do with individuals at all…but the nations that came from them…..look at the context….the entire context…and you will see that when they quote this verse it is used out of context….and also world in John 3:16 is talking about the entire populated world…doesnt say anything about only a chosen few…

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      • lyn says:

        So how am I twisting God's word to support the doctrines of grace, when I gave Scripture, word for word? What verses were pulled out of context?
        As for Jacob and Esau, God did not hate Esau, He rejected the Edomites, which came from Esau.

        As for the meaning of 'world',
        "The common reading of John 3:16 insists that God loved "the whole world" – meaning "everyone who has ever lived." And, He loved them immensely. After all "God ssssoooo loved the world!"

        That's emotionally appealing, but it's not what John wrote. The word "world" is the Greek "kosmos." While it is true that "kosmos" sometimes denotes "every part and parcel of the whole earth," most often it means, "people of all kindred, tribes and nations, as opposed to Israelites exclusively." This variation of meaning becomes obvious as we look at the Apostle John's own use of this word. He employed the word "kosmos" 82 times in his gospel. Here's just a sampling.
        "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." (John 1:10)
        Jesus was in the world – a reference to both the planet and its inhabitants. And, he made the world – the physical structure was created and is sustained by Him. And, the world knew Him not – the people did not recognize Him.
        In that short verse we get three different nuances of the single word "kosmos."
        "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (John 1:29)
        John was saying one of two things, here. Either he was saying:

        1) Behold the sacrificial lamb (typified by Israel's sin offerings) that will remove every sin of every person who ever lived. Or,

        2) Behold the sacrificial lamb that will remove not only the sin of Israelites but of people from every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation.
        If statement number 1 is true, then every sin of every person who ever lived was paid for at Calvary and God cannot judge anyone on the basis of their actions, thoughts, deeds, rebellion or even unbelief, inasmuch as those sins are all paid for.

        If statement number 2 is true, then the word "kosmos" can be used in a more narrow sense that includes people of all nations, but not every single person of all nations. As we'll see, number 2 is the more tenable and exegetically consistent reading of that verse.
        "For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world." (John 7:4)
        In this verse, Jesus' brothers were encouraging Him to go up to the feast at Jerusalem, work some miracles and spread His fame. But obviously, the whole world was not at Jerusalem. They were simply saying, "Go make yourself public." But again, this shows the narrow scope that is possible with the word "kosmos."

        "The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? Behold, the world is gone after him." (John 12:19)

        Likewise, the Pharisees did not mean to claim that people on distant continents were following Jesus at that moment. But, a large crowd in Jerusalem did. So again we see an example of the narrow scope of "kosmos."
        "The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." (John 7:7)
        Here, Jesus spoke of the "kosmos" hating Him. But, not everyone who ever lived hated Him. Rather, Jesus spoke of the majority of the populace who stood against Him. He may even have been referring to the religions and governmental systems that stood in opposition to His Lordship. But importantly, He did not mean that "everyone who ever lived" opposed Him.
        "Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end." (John 13:1)

        In this verse, John drew a distinction between the "kosmos" and those that Jesus loved. In other words, those that belonged to Him were in the world and He loved them to the end. But, he contrasted them with "the world." That's a critical distinction. So critical, in fact, that Jesus went on to pray only for His own beloved people, but not for the world.
        "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." (John 17:6-9)

        So, if "kosmos" means "everybody who ever lived," and God "ssssoooo loved" them, why would Jesus draw this line of demarcation between the world and "the men which thou gavest me out of the world"? Jesus prayed specifically for those people God gave Him ("for they are thine") and He specifically did not pray for "the world." Jim McClarty

        Again, "kosmos" does not always mean "everyone who ever lived." It most often means "people of every nationality as opposed to Israelites exclusively."

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      • Ima Believer says:

        lyn,

        Your interpretation (or borrowed interpretation) of John 3:16 is quite a break from every version of the Bible I have ever read. I went to Biblegateway.com just look up the verse in the KJV, ESV, NIV, NAS, Amplified, and several others. It's amazing that not one of them have written John 3:16 in the manner that you describe. Did all of these versions get it wrong?

        And did all the versions get it wrong, when they translated:

        1 John 4:8 …God is love.

        1 John 2:2 He (Jesus) is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

        Did they misinterpret Hebrews as well, when it proclaims the work of our High Priest, Jesus, was done once and for all?

        What about 2 Peter 3:9? The Lord does not delay and is not tardy or slow about what He promises, according to some people’s conception of slowness, but He is long-suffering (extraordinarily patient) toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance.

        Does "all" doesn't really mean "all"?

        You can keep your "Jim" version of the Bible.

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        I think you lost yourself in this discussion..because now I have no idea where you are trying to go…thats how confusing calvinism gets….leave it alone….leave it alone….learn what berean means….

        Like

      • lyn says:

        So, if God desires ALL men to be saved, why aren't they? If God is sovereign, then how can man have any part in saving himself? If salvation is by grace and grace alone, as Ephesians 2:8-9 states, where is there room for 'free will'?
        In Revelation 5:9, we see this ' And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation'. Here is a better understanding of who 'world' is, sinners from every part of the globe, regardless of ethnic background. Sinners from every tribe, tongue, nation; these are the ones God saves. NOT every sinner ever born, not based on human will.

        Your 'God' waits on His throne, hoping Johnny or Susie will choose Him today. My God is sovereign and chooses His elect from every tribe, tongue and nation.
        What you fail to understand is that NO ONE deserves eternal life, for God to choose some and not others certainly is not loving is it? Really? Does anybody deserve the gift of eternal life? Doesn't all of mankind deserve wrath? Yet God, in His mercy, chooses to save some, His choice for His glory. To state otherwise is to rob God of glory due only Him.

        As for Pastor McClarty's studies, they make more sense than the Arminian heresies that permeate America. God loves you so much, He must save you right? Wrong! A proper and thorough study on the attributes of God will deepen the understanding of who He is, His holiness, His mercy, His hatred of ALL sin. When Isaiah saw the vision in Isaiah 6, the holiness of God was made real to him, and he was brought to nothing, crying out 'woe is me, for I am undone'. How can a sinner be brought so low if all it takes to be saved is a choice? if God is nothing but love, then we create an idol that looks nothing like the God of the Bible. This is a one-sided attribute of a God that does not exist, for the holiness of God is His most prominent attribute. If God loves you, and you repeatedly, knowingly sin against Him, does that mean He must save you based on His love? God forbid…

        I'll take the deep studying of the word of God, the studying of the Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic language, Greek Grammar and sentence construction over 'face value' bible teachers any day.

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        It is God's will for all men to be saved…all men will not be saved simply because they refuse to accept the free gift of salvation that God offers freely to all men…Its a matter of choosing to believe or reject the free gift…the offer is there …its up to you to accept it..

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
        since we all have sinned…that means we all needed the savior to die for our sins…thats what He did on the cross….He said: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
        The free gift is eternal life for all those who would receive Him….Yes He hates sin..and thats why He dealth with sin in full on the cross through Jesus Christ His son!

        Like

      • Questioning says:

        "I don’t need a video to help me understand John 3:16… The Holy Spirit made it very clear to me what it means"

        So how did the holy spirit reveal it to you?
        Which chapter and verse?

        Like

    • Judy Walker says:

      Also black people complain about God being racist….if that were true then blacks wouldnt be the most hated people group in the world…it would be the jews!! Look at the hatred for the jewish people…..but yet God chose them..and they are the apple of His eye…and now im sure a calvinist wouldnt agree because they think the church has replaced israel..but that isnt what the word of God says….calvinist contradict God's word in order to hold fast to their own erroneous doctrines…

      Like

  18. Judy Walker says:

    and like I said before..I am quite aware of what language the bible is originally written in….I am not ignorant to that fact…Hebrew, greek and aramaic! I have study tools and I use them all the time….but context is important here..U cant make the bible say what you want…you must interpret in light of the context in which the verses are in…or else you distort God's word to make it say something else…we all must be very careful to handle the word of God with integrity….

    Like

    • Questioning says:

      "U cant make the bible say what you want…you must interpret in light of the context in which the verses are in…"

      This is true. You also need to consider the
      when (timeframe things are many different things in and about the world 2000 years later),
      where (geographical location the middle east under Roman rule is different than 2013 U.S.),
      to whom (intended audience), from whom (for example Pauline letters to different churches),
      and why ( Pauline letters and gospels often say to whom and why they are written) It would be intellectual dishonesty to claim that these have no relevance.

      Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        I understand clearly how to rightly interpret God's word…but I cant say the same for calvinist…

        Like

      • Questioning says:

        "I understand clearly how to rightly interpret God’s word…but I cant say the same for calvinist…" I apologize, if I'm misinterpreting your words. That statement just seems arrogant.

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Im simply being a berean and checking behind people….and I see that calvinism is another gospel….is it arrogant to see the truth that God shows me?

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        when it comes to salvation..its universal…same message is to all people no matter where they are from…Salvation is through Jesus Acts 4:12
        King James Version (KJV)
        12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Doesnt matter if its the year 10,000..the word is the same to all! All must come to Jesus His way or go to hell…Jesus said "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. All religions if they come any other way except through Jesus….only one road..and Jesus shows us that way!

        Like

      • Questioning says:

        The point is saying “I understand clearly how to rightly interpret God’s word…but I cant say the same for calvinist…” is arrogant.

        It's assuming that you have an indisputable understanding and that anyone that disagrees with you is wrong.

        When you dismiss a point that someone makes with a comment like "the Holy Spirit made it clear to me" but can't account for how, then you're assuming that others should just accept what you say because you said it without questioning or testing it.

        It's arrogant to assume that God gave you such clear clairvoyance and left any and everyone that disagrees with you as totally deluded.

        That's not the way to do things. "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily , whether those things were so." Acts 17:11

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        I think all my explainations are clearly in print here….I answered all questions here..did u read them or dismissed them? Its clearly not about agreeing with me…do we agree with God's word or do we change it to suite our own peculiar doctrines is my point…Im agreeing with the plan and ordinary sense of God's word..not trying to change the meaning of words like calvinist do…I interpret God's word literally unless its speaking figuratively or a metaphor….Calvinist redefine words to make it fit within their teachings….so again its not about agreeing with me…these are God's words not mine …Im just in total agreement with God…and not man!

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Another thing..God is Not racist…if He were..He would have to hate everyone seeing there is only ONE RACE …Human Race… Acts 10:34–35
        34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
        Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth. God is NOT like man..He doesnt think as a man…Christians are to have the mind of Christ ..not this petty racism immaturity! Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
        1 Samuel 16:7
        New King James Version (NKJV)
        7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees;[a] for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
        God sees a man based on whats in his heart…not what color he is….such foolishness

        Like

  19. Judy Walker says:

    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Doesnt matter what year we are in…God is the same and His word is forever settled in heaven! Psalm 119:89-96
    King James Version (KJV)
    89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.
    Here is a word of warning for anyone who would dare tamper with God's word and try and change the meaning of words to fit their doctrines…Deuteronomy 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it”(also Deuteronomy 12:32). The reason God is so adamant on this is because “The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160).
    Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar" Proverbs 30:6.

    False teachers do not want to submit to its original intent, so they do not seek what Scripture actually (exegesis) means, instead, they conform it to what they want it to mean (isogesis). They will look to another source as their authority because they are not under God’s authority. This is why Paul admonishes us in 1 Corinthians 4:6: “not to think beyond what is written” (exceed or go past). Why? So pride will not have an opportunity to operate and puff us up. It is pride that makes one participate in false doctrine which makes him spiritually destructive to himself and others who listen to him.
    Of all the books Revelation has the strongest warning as it has to do with the end of world system and the coming of the Lord to restore righteousness

    Like

  20. Judy Walker says:

    Its not being arrogant to call false teaching for what it is…calvinist doctrine does NOT agree with scripture..they have to twist words and meanings to make it fit….Paul exposes false teachings…Christ did…all the apostles did…is it arrogant to expose false teaching? Christ warned…see to it that NOONE deceives you…and that includes our favorites teachers…we are to be bereans and check behind anyone who claims to teach…that includes..me…you and anyone! Scripture is the authority…not any man's word! SO its not arrogant for me to call false, false….calvinism is a heretical teaching!

    Like

  21. Judy Walker says:

    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Doesnt matter what year we are in…God is the same and His word is forever settled in heaven! Psalm 119:89-96
    King James Version (KJV)
    89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.
    Here is a word of warning for anyone who would dare tamper with God’s word and try and change the meaning of words to fit their doctrines…Deuteronomy 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it”(also Deuteronomy 12:32). The reason God is so adamant on this is because “The entirety of Your word is truth” (Psalms 119: 160).
    Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar” Proverbs 30:6.

    False teachers do not want to submit to its original intent, so they do not seek what Scripture actually (exegesis) means, instead, they conform it to what they want it to mean (isogesis). They will look to another source as their authority because they are not under God’s authority. This is why Paul admonishes us in 1 Corinthians 4:6: “not to think beyond what is written” (exceed or go past). Why? So pride will not have an opportunity to operate and puff us up. It is pride that makes one participate in false doctrine which makes him spiritually destructive to himself and others who listen to him.
    Of all the books Revelation has the strongest warning as it has to do with the end of world system and the coming of the Lord to restore righteousness

    Like

  22. Judy Walker says:

    Its not being arrogant to call false teaching for what it is…calvinist doctrine does NOT agree with scripture..they have to twist words and meanings to make it fit….Paul exposes false teachings…Christ did…all the apostles did…is it arrogant to expose false teaching? Christ warned…see to it that NOONE deceives you…and that includes our favorites teachers…we are to be bereans and check behind anyone who claims to teach…that includes..me…you and anyone! Scripture is the authority…not any man’s word! SO its not arrogant for me to call false, false….calvinism is a heretical teaching!

    Like

    • lyn says:

      So, God is a heretic, according to your own words, for He Himself states that He chooses sinners 'even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love' Ephesians 1:4

      ' But we are bound to give thanks to God alway for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth' 2 Thessalonians 2:13

      'for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth' Romans 9:11

      ' So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy' Romans 9:16

      Judy, the word of God proves you wrong repeatedly. May He open your mind to the doctrines of grace found throughout His word; the gratitude which is birthed from a right understanding of salvation is a great blessing.

      Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        God isnt the heretic….Calvin isnt God…Calvin is the heretic! You are interpreting the word of God through calvin's eyes…Calvin contradicts the word of God…Ive posted enough here for you to see…unless you are just choosing to stay blinded…

        Like

      • lyn says:

        Judy,

        You still are NOT addressing the verses given, all you do is accuse. I am NOT defending Calvin, I am pointing you directly to God's word and His doctrines of grace that He speaks, how is my giving directly to you verses that state God chooses mean I'm blind? Perhaps it's you who are blind, you refuse to even engage the verses given, instead, you resort to accusations.

        Pride will keep sinners from understanding the true beauty of the grace and sovereignty of God in His gifting sinners with salvation.
        May God be gracious to you and give you understanding into His truth.

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        You havent answered any of my questions…all you are doing is pointing to the extreme view of the sovereignty of God and dismissing the freewill of man…You dont see both sides..you only see one and thats the calvinist view of God…You are doing away with the responsiblity of man…answer my questions…you havent answered any…you've only given me what calvin thinks…I dont care what he thinks…I care about the entire word of God…not just my fav verses pulled out of context which is what you calvinist are doing!

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Romans 9:16 isnt dealing with salvation…your interpretation of God's word is based on what calvin taught..and not the context….I pray for you that God would open your eyes and show you your error….and how calvin has led so many astray!

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        romans 9:13 have nothing at all to do with total depravity. It is just saying that by our own will we cannot force ourselves upon God..He is the author of salvation, and it is all by Hismercy and grace, not by our effort or will that we are saved…but that passage doesnt state that anyone is unable to believe the gospel when it is presented to Him with the convincing and conviction power of the Holy Spirit..

        Like

    • Questioning says:

      "calvinism is a heretical teaching!" Other than your own opinion and interpretation, what proof do you have that any of Calvin's interpretations are wrong.

      We all bring our own perspective, background, and paradigm into any interpretation.

      I call it arrogant, because you make the assumption that your interpretations are gospel and the interpretations of any that disagree with you as heretical.

      Have you examined anyone else's perspective to see how they might have the interpretation that they do?

      I'll give you an example. Why did Jesus teach to turn the other cheek?

      Was it his way of saying don't fight back?

      or

      Was it that if a person of higher status struck someone of lower status it was with the back of the hand. If someone struck you with a back hand, and you turned and offered the other cheek, then they'd be more likely to slap you with the palm. Slapping with the palm was more how you'd treat an equal rather than as someone of lower status.

      Which is right? Which is wrong?

      Like

  23. Judy Walker says:

    You mistake being totally depraved as an inability to respond…spritually dead people can respond to the gospel! Its for the entire world to hear and respond to…Christ died for all men…not only some men…It would make no sense to preach the gospel to the elect if God has already elected those He would save…He said 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
    Acts 17:30 Acts 17:30
    King James Version (KJV)
    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    All men Everywhere….what is so difficult to understand when God calls all men to repent…All is all! Stop making it mean something else when the meaning is clear..

    Like

  24. Judy Walker says:

    Titus 1:11 Titus 2:11
    King James Version (KJV)
    11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

    Like

  25. Judy Walker says:

    You ask for proof that calvinist is heretical…the sciptures I posted proves that…God Himself proves that …read His word….don't listen to calvin…listen to God!

    Like

  26. Judy Walker says:

    Galatians 1
    King James Version (KJV) better be careful of not perverting the gospel of God.. 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

    7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

    8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Like

  27. Judy Walker says:

    There is a curse issued for anyone who would dare preach any other gospel other than what God has stated in His word….

    Like

  28. Judy Walker says:

    Allow scripture to interpret scripture and stop letting calvin interpret it for you….God's Holy Spirit is the teacher…listen to Him instead because He will lead and guide you into ALL truth!

    Like

  29. Judy Walker says:

    All Im simply doing is testing calvin's teachings by the word of God….thats called being a berean! God commands christians to contend for the faith…The faith that God established..not the one that calvin established..

    Like

  30. Judy Walker says:

    would does God plead for the wicked to forsake his ways if He is unable to? Would God be serious in pleading with sinners if He is responsible for not giving them the ability to forsake…or if He didnt give man a free will to do so? Why would He need to plead and reason with man if Man cannot respond?

    Like

  31. Judy Walker says:

    God makes it very clear that it's not man's inability but unwillingness to repent! Habakkuk 1:9; Acts 3:23, Isaiah 7:9; Zechariah 14:17; malachi 2:2; matthew 18:16; luke 9:5, 19:14, 22:67; john 4:48; acts 22:18; 2timothy 4:3 and tons more…this ought to be enough for you to see that man chooses not to believe God..

    Like

  32. Questioning says:

    Romans 8:29-30 declares: "For [those] whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, [those] whom He predestined these He also called, whom He called these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified"

    Yes it says "predestined"

    Ephesians 1:3-6 teaches: 'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love, having predestined us to adoptions as sons by Jesus Christ

    "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" What does it mean to choose us before the foundation of the world?

    Then the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, king of Egypt and he pursued after the Israelites, although the Israelites were going out boldly Exodus 14:8

    It doesn't say that pharaoh hardened his own hear. "the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh"

    How can either of us know which is the true gospel and which one is false.

    Like

    • Judy Walker says:

      I would challenge you to study the words foreknew..and predestined, those words do not take away the free will of man…also the fact that God hardened pharoah's heart…was only done after pharoah hardened his own heart…He wanted to disobey God…but look at it…pharoah hardened his heart first…Its very clear that pharoah hardened his heart after God issued a command and he refused to obey it….God didnt make him choose to disobey Him….Pharoah chose to disobey….look at what Joshua says to Israel..Joshua 24:15
      King James Version (KJV)
      15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Well…Joshua couldnt have said choose you this day whom you will serve..if man had no free will could he have?

      Like

    • Judy Walker says:

      one last question for you…If man has no free will as you calvinists would try to have us believe….who is the author of sin?

      Like

  33. Questioning says:

    "Definition of PREDESTINE
    : to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand; especially : predestinate "
    Determine beforehand, that seems to mean that things are predetermined.

    "Definition of FOREKNOW
    : to have previous knowledge of : know beforehand especially by paranormal means or by revelation " To know something before it happens

    If God is omnipotent (all powerful), and omniscient (all knowing), then how can you do something that God doesn't already know that your are going to do. If God knows that you are going to wear a red shirt today. Can you choose to wear a green one instead and not wear a red one at all today. That would mean that God was mistaken. If God can be mistaken, then that means that God can't be omniscient.

    I never said that I was Calvinist. I just can see their perspective as well as being able to see yours.

    Like

  34. Judy Walker says:

    Foreknowledge shows that God already knows the beginning to the end of all things….it still doesnt do away with the free will of man which calvinists will tell you..Calvinist teach that man has no free will…even though God hold all men responsible for the choices they make..meaning they have a will to choose!

    Like

    • lyn says:

      Romans 8:29 “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

      Here Paul is inspired to explain the outworking of God’s providence and to show how we can “know” that all things are go­ing to ultimately work out for our good. It is only because God is in total control of all things. This is the force of “for” here: it shows the cause. From the past eternity to the future eternity, God has wrought out His purposes of good for His own. This is the golden chain of divine grace which has forged links of omnipotence which cannot be broken. The Greek for “foreknow” appears only in Acts 2:23; 26:5; here; Romans 11:2; 1 Peter 1:2, 20; 2 Peter 3:17. That it does not refer to a bare prescience is obvious from Acts 2:23 where it has an active, decreeing force, and from 1 Peter 1:20 where it is translated “foreordained.” “God foreknows what will be, by determining what shall be. God’s foreknow­ledge cannot in itself be the cause of any event; but events must be produced by His decree and ordination. It is not because God foresees a thing that it is decre­ed; but he foresees it because it is ordained by Him to happen in the order of His providence. Therefore His foreknowledge and decrees cannot be separated; for the one implies the other …Nothing is contingent in the mind of God, who foresees and orders all events according to His own eternal and unchangeable will,” [Haldane]. Many would bind the omnipotent God to the contingencies of depraved men by saying “God foresaw man’s faith, and so predestinated him.” But note carefully that this is not a foreknowledge of acts or conditions at all: it is a foreknowledge of persons: “Whom He did foreknow.” “Foreknow” is simply the Greek word for “know” (ginōskō) with a prefix signifying “before” and so to determine its meaning we need to see how “know” is used. It often means to approve, as in Romans 7:15, to enter into an intimate relationship with someone, as in Matthew 1:25, to know as one’s own, (Matthew 7:23), to resolve, (Luke 16:4), to experi­ence, (Rev. 2:24). Foreknow means that God, before all time, determined upon certain ones that they would be His and in due time would be effectually drawn to Him in re­demption. It is equivalent to foreordination. The sec­ond link in this chain of grace is predestination. In its verb and noun forms it appears in Acts 2:25 4:28; 21:29, Romans 8:29, 30; 1 Corinthians 2:7; and Ephesians 1:5, 11. It means to determine, purpose or decree something before­hand. This predestination is unto conformity to the image of Christ. This is more than a mere physical con­formity to Him at the resurrection, although this is in­cluded. In salvation to which God has chosen us, (2 Thess. 2:13), we are conformed to the moral and spiritual likeness of Christ. This is God’s purpose for His elect people. Ephesians 1:4‑5 explains this. Justification, sanc­tification and glorification are three stages in this conformity. Deniers of Christ’s deity say that “first­born” here proves Him to be a mere creature, but this word is always suggestive of superiority or dignity. In this place it shows the superiority of the Only begotten Son of God over those who are sons of God by grace thru the new birth, instead of by nature. “Firstborn” is al­so used of the resurrection of Christ, (Col. 1:18; Rev. 1:5), for He is the first ever to rise from death in a new, glorified, immortal body. Davis Huckabee at http://www.pbministries.org/Landmark_Baptist/Semi

      Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Also your extreme view of the sovereignty of God makes God the author of sin as well….since God cannot be tempted by evil….that means that even though God is sovereign….there are things a sovereign God cannot do…He cannot lie…He cannot change…he cannot be tempted by sin…etc..

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        You keep saying I've not answered you…you havent read anything Ive posted…and I've posted all scripture there for you to read…but you havent responded except to give me your extreme views…so if you cant answer my questions..what more can I say to you…Ive only given you what God has said in His word…I cant give you whats not there….because His word is Truth!

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        If you cant answer any of my questions that Ive asked..I guess this is the end of the discussion….God's word is plain..welll at least its plain to me …I depend on Him to show me what it means….

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Foreknowledge: To know something in advance is not the same as predetermining that it will happen. Nor does God need to predestine something in order to know it will happen. Were that the case, God would not be infinite in His knowledge. There is a vast difference between saying that God fully foresees everything that will happen and allows much that is not His perfect will—and saying that God predetermines everything that occurs and it is therefore all just as He would have it. The latter view makes man a mere puppet and God the cause behind all wickedness and sin.

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Thank you for your time…but to the Bible I will go and, like the Bereans, will stand upon it regardless of what others may say. I pray that God would give you wisdom and understanding of the whole counsel of God…I pray that for myself as well…

        Like

  35. Judy Walker says:

    I've studied calvinism…and I disagree with them because they twist and distort the clear meaning of words in order to make it fit into their doctrines…and they misrepresent the God of the bible….

    Like

  36. Questioning says:

    Can you choose a choice that God doesn't know about?

    Like

    • Judy Walker says:

      God knows all our thoughts….He is omiscient! So no I cant think anything that He would not already know…Ps:44:21: Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

      Ps:66:18: If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

      Ps:95:10: Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

      Ps:139:23: Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

      Prov:24:12: If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

      Mt:9:4: And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

      Mt:15:8: This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
      these are just a few verses…God knows all things…nothing comes to Him as a surprise..but he knows the choices we will make before we make them as well…thats what foreknowledge is…but it doesnt have an effect on what we will do…it just shows God already knows what we will do before we do them….

      Like

  37. Judy Walker says:

    There is NO such thing as irresistable grace….grace yes…but God's grace can be resisted…as You can see when men resist it and refuse to believe in the free gift that Jesus offered to the entire world…not just to the elect as you calvinist like to interpret God's word

    Like

  38. Judy Walker says:

    Any my questions…I've asked quite a few that you have ignored..Ive answered all yours…

    Like

  39. Judy Walker says:

    *answer*

    Like

  40. Judy Walker says:

    You claim you are not calvinist…but yet your answers are the very ones they hold to..which makes you one of them…you dont look at the total context of the word of God…you pick verses that only apply to what you want to read…instead of looking at the whole of God's word!

    Like

  41. Judy Walker says:

    You have to quote men…I quote God….I have no clue who Davis Huckabee is….nor do I care…because I have the word of God….God teaches me and I have study tools like greek and hebrew dictionaries….but ultimately its the Holy Spirit who leads and guides into all truth…

    Like

  42. Judy Walker says:

    your definitions are from martin luther….he was wrong! Martin Luther asserts that "God foreknows and wills all things." He argues that if this is not true, then "how can you believe, trust and rely on His promises?" His definition of foreknowledge…predestine were corrupt..

    Like

  43. Judy Walker says:

    Calvin states no less dogmatically than Luther that foreknowledge leaves no room whatsoever for free will. Period. We are astonished that Calvin repeatedly makes fallacious, unbiblical statements; and doubly astounded that so many leading evangelicals continue to praise him for being so logical and such a great exegete.

    If God cannot know by His foreknowledge what every person will think and do by their free will, then He is not God. Moreover, the fact that God is able to allow man freedom of choice while still effecting His eternal purposes unhindered is all the more glorifying to His sovereign wisdom, power, and foreknowledge.

    What is future to us may not be future to God: He sees not only our past but our present and future as already having happened. From this understanding, God's knowledge of what in our experience hasn't yet happened would have no effect upon its occurrence and therefore would leave us free to choose.

    Like

  44. Judy Walker says:

    your faulty definitions come from these men…Martin Luther, The Bondage of the Will (trans. J.D. Packer and O.R. Johnston, Fleming H. Revell, 1957), 83-84.
    Augustine of Hippo, The City of God (n.p.n.d.), V. 10. 1977), 35.

    Like

  45. Judy Walker says:

    The Greek word is the word we use for prognosis, progonosko , and it simply means “to know ahead of time.” Now the Bible links all these links foreknowledge with the election and predestination. I Peter 1: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God, or Romans 8, “Whom he foreknew he did predestinate.” Now the Calvinist of course does not want to have any basis for predestination or election except that God just decided it and he wants to link predestination and election with salvation and in fact, they are not. Predestination or election is unto a blessing unto something that God has marked out ahead of time for those that he knew would respond to the gospel, otherwise what’s the point in having foreknowledge linked with predestination? But the Calvinist says no, what it means is those that he determined beforehand. So now we have a redundancy. Those that he determined beforehand he elected beforehand or those that he predestined he predestined. But foreknowledge, I think from the scriptures, you’re going to have to introduce some other ideas to change it simply that God knew ahead of time and I can’t give you the many other examples of that, but we have examples that show this is what that word means.

    Like

    • Questioning says:

      You asked me to look up the words predestined and foreknew.

      "The definitions weren't from your faulty definitions come from these men…Martin Luther, The Bondage of the Will (trans. J.D. Packer and O.R. Johnston, Fleming H. Revell, 1957), 83-84.
      Augustine of Hippo, The City of God (n.p.n.d.), V. 10. 1977), 35."

      The definitions were from an online dictionary. Webster actually.

      Like you said "The Greek word is the word we use for prognosis, progonosko , and it simply means “to know ahead of time.” " If God knows something is going to happen "ahead of time" that means it's going to happen.

      I haven't labeled you , so please don't label me as a "calvinist" or anything else. It's a lot easier to dismiss someone when they have a label attached to them.

      Another thing to remember is that the disagreement shouldn't be more important than the person. It's ok to disagree and see things differently.

      If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 1 cor 13:3

      4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

      8 Love never fails.

      I actually come from a fundamentalist baptist background. I experienced a lot of cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile what I believed to be true with things that I knew to be true.

      For instance the earth being only 6000 years old when there is so much geological evidence otherwise.

      Ken Miller, a Roman Catholic biologist, has presented research as to why humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes and chimpanzees have 24 pairs.

      I hope that you can respect me as a person and that I have an opinion, which we are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs based on our own pursuit of knowledge and experiences.

      I'm not a calvinist, I'm an atheist. Based on how you describe calvinists, I'm sure you probably have that much more bad things to say about atheists.

      Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        Ok..so now that I know that you are an atheist….I can't really argue the deeper things with you concerning the bible because according to God's word: 1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. until you are born again…you will not understand the bible…You can claim you do..but God says you can't…you need salvation…until you realize you are lost and without hope and ask Jesus to save you…you will suffer eternal damnation! Jesus in His word pleads for the lost to turn to Him and be saved! Believe on the Lord jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved…I can respect you as a person….its not really about respect here…thats not the issue..the issue is now…you are lost and need Jesus to save you….

        Like

      • Questioning says:

        I expect as much. The condescending and arrogant tone that you use when you thought you were talking to a believer made that pretty clear.

        I was a Christian at one point, in the middle of my friends apartment at night by myself, asking Jesus to come into my life and save me. I won't deny that it felt very real at the time. A friend loaned me a bible and i spend days reading it.

        1 John 5:12 was what I considered my life verse. I saw myself like the woman at Jesus's feet in Luke 7: 36-50. My sins were many, and how great it was to feel loved in spite of how terrible I was.

        Another life verse, before hand I would say "You're breaking my stone cold heart" After that night I found Ezekiel 36:26, the first recorded heart transplant.

        Had you known me back then, you'd realize how misinformed, ignorant, and arrogant your comment ".I can’t really argue the deeper things with you concerning the bible " comes across.

        It sounds like you're a bitter person that doesn't even experience the joy of what Christians are supposed to know. You'd rather insult than find value in people. You might learn something about the God you claim if you read Luke 7.

        I'm a teacher. You'd probably be uncomfortable around my students. Many of them have been to jail, some prison, gang bangers and even though I'm more educated than them, I allow them to teach me something every single day. They admire and respect me, because I make myself their equal. Both they and I know that I know more academics than they do, but I still give equal weight to what they have to say.

        If you want to be a part of "the great commission", then you really need to work on your people skills.

        Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        A true christian never loses their salvation…Jesus said those who receive Him..he gave eternal life…if he gave eternal life and u lost it..just shows it wasnt real..you probably never truly understood what Jesus did for you and thats why you answer the way you do…and the answer I responded to you wasnt arrogant…it was from God's word…He said that..not me..Im merely quoting from His word….I talk to all kinds of people all the time…My bible tells me…people will NOT endure sound doctrine in the last days…this is a forum…so U cant say Im arrogant for quoting what Jesus said… you dont even know me….Im simply giving you His message…you do with it what you choose…either believe Him..or reject Him..its your choice….I will pray for you however…

        Like

  46. Judy Walker says:

    If you are just looking for someone to argue with…I wont give you that….I will simply pray that God will reach you before its too late..and send someone to you that you can listen to…and not harden your heart to….

    Like

    • Questioning says:

      I won't cast any pearls before you

      Like

      • Judy Walker says:

        I don't believe you have any to cast….only christians do that when they insist on trying to reach those who refuse Jesus…so therefore dont worry about casting what you dont have…

        Like

      • Questioning says:

        I don't take that personally, some of us have evolved a bit further than others and don't have to rely on insults.

        Like

  47. Judy Walker says:

    That wasn't an insult…that was just truth…but lol@ evolved..now that is funny…

    Like

  48. Judy Walker says:

    But when you reject the one True God…what else can you do but believe in evolving…thats what rejecting leads too…utter futility of the mind…Psalm 14:1-3
    King James Version (KJV)
    14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    Like

  49. Judy Walker says:

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    Like

  50. Questioning says:

    Here are some scriptures for you, you might find 1,2, and 6 especially thought provoking

    1 . I'd Really Rather You Didn’t Act Like A Sanctimonious Holier-Than-Thou Ass When Describing My Noodly Goodness. If Some People Don't Believe In Me, That's Okay. Really, I'm Not That Vain. Besides, This Isn't About Them So Don't Change The Subject.

    2. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Use My Existence As A Means To Oppress, Subjugate, Punish, Eviscerate, And/Or, You Know, Be Mean To Others. I Don't Require Sacrifices, And Purity Is For Drinking Water, Not People.

    3. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Judge People For The Way They Look, Or How They Dress, Or The Way They Talk, Or, Well, Just Play Nice, Okay? Oh, And Get This In Your Thick Heads: Woman=Person, Man=Person. Samey-Samey. One is Not Better Than The Other, Unless We're Talking About Fashion And I'm Sorry, But I Gave That To Women And Some Guys Who Know The Difference Between Teal And Fuchsia.

    4. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Indulge In Conduct That Offends Yourself, Or Your Willing, Consenting Partner Of Legal Age AND Mental Maturity. As For Anyone Who Might Object, I Think The Expression Is Go F*** Yourself, Unless They Find That Offensive In Which Case They Can Turn Off The TV For Once And Go For A Walk For A Change.

    5. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Challenge The Bigoted, Misogynist, Hateful Ideas Of Others On An Empty Stomach. Eat, Then Go After The B*******.

    6. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Build Multimillion-Dollar Churches/Temples/Mosques/Shrines To My Noodly Goodness When The Money Could Be Better Spent (Take Your Pick):

    A. Ending Poverty
    B. Curing Diseases
    C. Living In Peace, Loving With Passion, And Lowering The Cost Of Cable.

    I Might Be A Complex-Carbohydrate Omniscient Being, But I Enjoy The Simple Things In Life. I Ought To Know. I AM The Creator.

    7. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Go Around Telling People I Talk To You. You're Not That Interesting. Get Over Yourself. And I Told You To Love Your Fellow Man, Can't You Take A Hint?

    8. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You If You Are Into, Um, Stuff That Uses Alot Of Leather/Lubrication/Las Vegas. If The Other Person Is Into It However (Pursuant To #4), Then Have At It, Take Pictures, And For The Love Of Mike, Wear A CONDOM! Honestly, It's A Piece Of Rubber, If I Didn't Want It To Feel Good When You Did IT I Would Have Added Spikes, Or Something.
    RAmen.

    The 8 I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts from the Gospel of The Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Like

    • Judy Walker says:

      sorry Im not familiar with the "book of atheist" Im sure you are familiar with it..that seems to be your kind of "wisdom" the one from below…where satan dwells…

      Like

      • Questioning says:

        You perceived anger and satan from

        Saying that you shouldn't "Oppress, Subjugate, Punish, Eviscerate, And/Or, You Know, Be Mean To Others."

        That's wisdom straight out of the pit of hell isn't it.

        The quotes are from the Gospel of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, written by Bobby Henderson, (Bobby Henderson is a pseudonym for Anton Levay, not really but it sounded funny) You can get a copy on amazon for about $10 to $12.

        http://www.venganza.org

        Like

  51. Judy Walker says:

    are those quotes from Anton LaVey ..gotta be his sorta philosophy….sorry Im not familiar with the book of demons….

    Like

  52. Judy Walker says:

    well…No more responses from me…the quotes from the bible describes whom Im dealing with….so maybe I ought to leave you to your anger…I will pray for you…you need Jesus …..because without him you will go on a babbling rampage…like whatever that is you just quoted….guess since you left Christ..thats the "wisdom you turned to….soo sad….bye bye now….

    Like

  53. lyn says:

    Questioning,

    I respect your engaging Judy, and what you proved by it all. When you said "It sounds like you’re a bitter person that doesn’t even experience the joy of what Christians are supposed to know. You’d rather insult than find value in people" you said a mouthful. Sadly, Judy's motive seems to be to prove HERSELF right, and lash out at all who disagree with her views. This happens all day long, every day, and all in the name of 'Christianity'. She is on the attack, seeking to argue with any and everyone who does not agree with her. Sad to say, this is all too common.

    I find it interesting when you say 'I was a Christian at one point, in the middle of my friends apartment at night by myself, asking Jesus to come into my life and save me' – this is Judy's 'method of salvation'; sinners choosing God instead of God choosing them. The fact that you are no longer Christian verifies that we do not choose Him.
    You pointed to Ezekiel 36:26, which is a 'key' verse in how sinners are changed, one only needs to hi-light every "I" in that text to see who quickens the dead sinner, the unregenerate heart.

    What I am seeing more and more is that those who are not Christians have more discernment than those who claim to be, which is very troubling. Humility is sorely lacking.

    You say you are a teacher, and your students include gang bangers and those who've been incarcerated. What kind of teaching do you do, if I may ask? If you prefer not to answer, I respect that.

    We can discuss this privately if you like.

    Like

    • Judy Walker says:

      I think you are confusing the conversations here….you are contributing things to me that I didnt say lol….reread all that again…you are confused….

      Like

    • Judy Walker says:

      But ty for the invite to the private conversation…I dont give out my personal info to random people online…I wouldnt begin to know whom Im dealing with …but ty anyway…and no need for a private discussion..this discussion is over…O by the way..Im not the bitter one…I am not the one who walked out on Jesus….

      Like

  54. lyn says:

    Judy,

    what happened to this – "well…No more responses from me".
    My last comment was not directed towards you, I am engaging 'questioning'.

    However, I will say this, I am seeing a growing trend in the blogosphere world where Christians are showing less and less discernment, humiliation and love, while the unbelieving show more discernment than Christians, what's wrong with this picture?
    Questioning stated – "If you want to be a part of “the great commission”, then you really need to work on your people skills." I cannot argue with that at all, where is the humility and love the Bible teaches?

    " Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. " Phil. 2:3-4

    It is a sad day in Christendom when warranted rebukes come from the unbelieving.

    Like

    • Questioning says:

      to lyn:

      Since you asked. I teach math to young adults age 18 to 24. For one reason or another they were unsuccessful in traditional school settings.

      The school is project based, so rather than rely on testing we design projects for our students with a social justice theme.

      Like

  55. Ima Believer says:

    @lyn,

    "So, if God desires ALL men to be saved, why aren’t they?"

    Because God also gave each person has free will to choose.

    Deuteronomy 30:19-20 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

    "The fact that you are no longer Christian verifies that we do not choose Him."

    You use anecdotal quotes from strangers as confirmation for your beliefs. That's rather disheartening.

    Like

    • lyn says:

      Again, the Bible teaches that sin has corrupted every part of man, including the will; Jeremiah 17:9 testifies to that, but you must go into the Hebrew to see it. As for Deut., those texts are NOT referring to salvation, they are directed at the nation Israel and promises for obeying, curses for not obeying. "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; had plainly told them in express words what would be the consequence of obedience and disobedience to the law of God; long life, and the blessings of it in the land of Canaan, to those that obey it; death, by various means, and dreadful curses, to those that disobey it; of which see at large Deu_28:16' John Gill commentary

      I use a testimony from a person who claimed they chose Christ, but no longer desire Him. The doctrine of man's depravity is too hard to accept because of pride.

      Like

  56. Ima Believer says:

    @Questioning:

    "For instance the earth being only 6000 years old when there is so much geological evidence otherwise."

    Are you 100% certain that the geological evidence presented from the evolutionary world view is 100% accurate? Are you confident that the dating methods used by evolutionary scientists are incapable of error? Do you truly understand the use of 'half-lifes' to assign ages to once living matter and the limits of this measuring system?

    Good science is observable, testable, and verifiable by unbiased third parties.

    ————————————————————————-
    Here's an observable scenario for you to ponder…

    The moon is important to life on earth as the gravitational attraction between the earth and moon helps to create the tides on the earth. It has been observed, repeatedly over time that the moon is drifting away from the earth at a rate of 3.8 centimeters per year.

    Using the creationist model of 6000 years times 3.8 centimeters would put the moon roughly 228 meters closer to the earth. This not a big deal considering the moon is roughly 350,000 to 400,000 km from earth.

    However, if the Earth and moon are 4.6 or 4.5 billion years old or however many billions of years the evolutionist might be using these days, the math doesn't work. 3.8 cm times 4,600,000,000 years = 17,480,000 km. This amount exceeds 400,000 km by 4 times and doesn't even take an account for the Roche limit.

    ————————————————————————-

    Evolutionists maintain multiple theories for the origin of the moon. All the ones before the lunar landings in the 60s were blown apart by observable, testable, and verifiable science. Despite the evidence presented from the moon visits, evolutionists continue to cling to these pre-1960s theories.

    ————————————————————————-
    God is self-evident through His creation. An individual must be deceived (fooled) to believe in the nothingness of evolution. That is why the scripture declares that the fool has said in his heart, "there is no God".

    I hope that you find a way to overcome this deception, Questioning. I pray that God opens your eyes.

    Hebrews 11:6 "…whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

    Like

  57. Jscotch says:

    Hello Everyone, Let's make sure we study this lady Prof. Very well, she might be from the pit of hell. We need to examine her, she's not ordinary, she's possessed, she need to be delivery from the hands of nonsense talks spirit…. God Rule my soul. I don't know about you! But I believed that God loves you more.. Shalom. Tell her to repent before the wrath of the Lord we desend on her..

    Like

  58. james jordan says:

    God's not white. He's Jewish.

    Like

  59. james jordan says:

    Katrina effected white people more by sending a lot of crime their way. And also now every restaurant in Texas wants to give you sweet tea by default thanks to the influx from Lousyana.

    Like

  60. Ceadda says:

    I applaud Anthea for sparking this fierce debate, she's definitely on to something here. Her research is based on empirical data, it's not simply anecdotal. The patriarchal God in the Old Testament was cruel and ruthless –not the compassionate Father we preach of today. Moreover, aboriginals and minorities are under represented in the media and over represented in correctional facilities. To simply say that it is their lot and deal with, is not what Christ taught us. We'd probably be better off being atheists, since many wars have been fought in the name of God. For all of you who judge her see, James 4:11 – God is the only true judge: Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother, or judges his brother, speaks against the law, and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law, but a judge of it.

    Like

    • Judy says:

      Ceadda, its obvious you dont know the God of the bible neither..I do pray you will receive the real Lord and savior Jesus Christ and not whoever this "god" you speak of saying the old testament God was cruel and ruthless….He is the same yesterday, today and forever, He changes NOT…and if you are gonna quote scipture…make sure its applicable to what you are talking about..because what you just quoted from james does not apply here…and this woman professor judged GOD because she doesnt know Him….I would advise you both get to know Him and receive Him because He is the very one whose gonna judge us all!

      Like

    • Questioning says:

      Hi Ceadda,

      The profs definition of "God" in her comment was referring to the power structure within our country.

      In regard to your comment "Moreover, aboriginals and minorities are under represented in the media and over represented in correctional facilities."

      I had students do a research project in our area. They found that African Americans make up 8% of the local population, however they account for 11% of traffic related arrests. Hispanics also account for more arrests than their percentage of the total population. 39% of the population accounts for 43% of arrests.

      Interestingly, whites that make up 37% of the population only make up 33% of arrests.

      If the population was only 100, then 3 to 4 % might be anecdotal, but when the population is over 400,000 that ranges from 12,000 to 16,000.

      For drivers in my area those stopped that had their vehicles searched White 19%, Black 23%, Hispanic 50% Asian 6%, and other 2%.

      The population for this area is 33% White, 8% Black, 39% Hispanic, 11% Asian, and the remainder are Multiracial.

      Like

  61. FreedomOfSpeech says:

    The God of the old testament is a racist. However there is nothing wrong with that. Each person is a little racist. Some more than others. As a human being, one has the right to be with others of their own race, marry others within their own race, have kids that are of their own race, etc. God is a racist and Jesus was a raging "anti-semite". All one has to do is look at the Bible, look at the original languages (as best as you can). There are many mistranslations and misinterpretations. I'm sure this comment either will never make it to the comments page or get voted down into oblivion, however I speak the truth.

    Like

  62. the time says:

    I am black and I respect everyones opinion, but the murder rate by blacks on blacks are very high, we have changed the way we think by not giving a care about nobody not even ourselves. I am responsible for my own actions and for the words I choose to say. How are we suppose to be looked at by white people when most of our music is injecting poison in our kids brain. God is giving everyone a wake up call and katrina was one way for God to say I see what you all are doing,rebuild and change. The white man loosing his seat in the white house was his punishment from God.Everyone's punishment fit the crime and God is not finished the black kids who lost there life to cowards for no reason will see hell and I myself have also suffered from my own transgressions. I am no Judge, but if you have a flat tire are you not gonna change it. or if you have garbage on your lawn are you not gonna pick it up?, if your dishes are dirty will you not wash them or if the music your kids are listening to is poison will you not try to stop them from listening? and teach them why? If you have answered no to any of these questions then you are part of the problem. We are no Gods nor are we are any race is superior, we are just week and left for prey without our guns.We made the mess when we thought we were getting smarter, the problem is we were smart when we left Gods earth and each other alone.

    Like

  63. the time says:

    We are all foolish and are very irrelevant and small. God does not care what we think of him it only matters what he thinks of us, just keep doing and thinking the way we all do and we all will find out one day.

    Like

  64. the time says:

    I love you all we all have been through something that made us this way.Nothing was created without a creator and nothing is nothing until it becomes something.

    Like

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