Church of England to blend Christianity with Paganism to attract spiritualists

stonehenge-solstic_2596384b

Stonehenge Summer Solstice 2013

Here’s a new twist on church growth: creating a pagan atmosphere and branding campaign for New Age spiritualists in order to increase the number of bodies in the pews. The Church of England is actually training its ministers to create “a pagan church where Christianity [is] very much in the center” to attract spiritual believers.

That means changing the Anglican church doctrine to make it more inclusive for people of alternative beliefs. The Church of England admits that its motive is to retain congregation numbers who have embraced paganism. The Church Mission Society, which is training ministers to “break new ground” in order to get spiritual people into churches.  If you’ve come from a Seeker-Driven model, that might actually sound like a good thing. Get them in the doors and tell them about Jesus, right? But make no mistake; that is not what is happening here. The Jesus the Church of England is re-creating is not the Jesus of the Bible.

A little update on the Church of England: It recently gave up its fight against gay marriage, and also went as far as to bless civil partnerships.

The Church Mission Society’s Andrea Campenale, said: “Nowadays people, they want to feel something; they want to have some sense of experience. We live in reflective England where there’s much more of a focus on ourselves. I think that is something we can bring in dialogue with the Christian society.”

The Church Mission Society’s webpage advertising their pioneer training scheme states: “Wherever in the world the mission of Jesus goes on, the church needs pioneer mission leaders to break new ground.”

This news release was actually coordinated a couple of days ago to align with the Summer Solstice, with events lining up around the celebrations at Stonehenge which recently underwent a multimillion dollar transformation. A couple of days ago 20,000 spiritual seekers celebrated the summer solstice there. Pagans and druids gathered to celebrate at the historic monument.

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111 Responses to Church of England to blend Christianity with Paganism to attract spiritualists

  1. Marie says:

    Several years ago a Sunday School curriculum was given to me by a "board approved" church system. One of the lessons focused on church history highlighting the "conversion" of emperor Constantine to the Christian faith. Well, the numbers just did not add up to me and God, the Holy Spirit led me to researching this ruler, his beliefs, and his methods. I was not surprised to discover that his "conversion" was not a true Biblical born again conversion and he actually converged pagan practices of his day with the church system……the outcome was celebrating a pagan celebration called christmas and all of the pagan atrocities associated with it.

    No, I am not a Jehovah Witness for those of you who do not choose to accept the truth. When a woman in the church system shared with me that christmas and easter are not celebrated, nor commanded by God, our Father, to honor or celebrate in any way, shape, or form, I became very upset with her for even daring to tell me that I am celebrating pagan traditions. These topics caused tension in our friendship for quite some time. So I asked God to show me through His Word where we are called to celebrate these holidays because I grew up honoring these and they brought back fond memories…..not of Jesus, mind you, but of family gathering together to eat and give and receive gifts.

    I read my Bible, and discovered…..there is no christmas…..it's a man-made tradition. Easter was also NOT honored by true Christians as why would they have paid homage to a pagan goddess Ishtar/Astarte/Ashoreth? Many of the new born again Christians in our Bibles actually celebrated the Passover and The Feast of the First Fruits which Jesus fulfilled to the letter.

    No christmas. No easter. So what was I to do with these new truths the LORD was showing me. Simple. I quit practicing them and to be truthful…I have experienced MORE of the fruits of the Holy Spirit by not engaging in the culture during these pagan festivals…..I have been released and God has blessed me incredibly through His mercy and grace. Blessings have been given and blessings have been received as I celebrate and honor our King Jesus all year long instead of the designated times as required by man. We must remember, our Holy Scriptures tell us that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and a fulfillment of all of the Feasts.

    We can worship Him in spirit and in truth any time and any where for His Spirit is not enclosed within a walled system built by man and is beyond the time as we know it.

    So this article is basically addressing the fact that there is nothing new under the sun. The systhesis of paganism and Christianity has already taken place years ago this is just another modern movement of the very same scheme that Constantine initiated.

    Soon, coming to the church system near you, the pew sitters will be engaging in Hindu yoga before the church service begins to get your minds, body, and soul in tune with the spirits. Wait a minute, that is already happening….pardon me.

    Persecution will come to America with the false churches leading the way….Constantine ruled by the sword so will the harlot church.

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    • Shelly says:

      Amen sister!!

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    • diane says:

      Praise YHWH, Marie that your eyes were opened!! He is FAITHFUL and He is all able. It was my immediate thought was "It's been done before" and with evil and disasterous results…as is always the case when you mix lies and truth together. The Bible tells us we are not to have accord with darkness.
      It also brings to mind the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Good…AND evil. God hates mingling of His good, His truth with evil.
      Now, sister, I want to challenge you on another thing…why are you keeping the first day of the week, Sunday instead of the seventh day as God commanded. This is another man made doctrine. God said His Sabbath is a sign between Him and His people – not Sunday (for the Sun god that Constantine and the pagans loved to worship). Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday is the Sabbath of the LORD. It's a holy appointment that He has set all the way back in creation week. You might mistakenly think it was just for the Jews, but no, look in Genesis and you will see He blessed and santified the 7th day and rested and there was not a Jew in sight. When you read the book of Acts you will see they were keeping the Sabbath, and you will see that even the Gentiles asked to be taught the following Sabbath (not Sunday). You see they understood that if they wanted to worship the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob they would worship on the Sabbath. You will not find one text in all of your Bible where it says God changed the day. You will not find one text in all of your Bible where it says that God has blessed and santified the first day of the week, Sunday. Most churches that keep Sunday say they do it because Christ was resurrected on Sunday. That's all good and well, but God knew exactly what day His Son would be raised all the way back from the beginning since He knows the end from the beginning. It is the tradition of men and there is a lot of history around who changed it and why they changed it. It is the doctrine of men- not according to the word of God and His commandments. Do not be deceived sister, you keep digging…you will find there is a tremendous amount of error in the typical mainstream Christian churches for the very reason this article was written…because there was a co-mingling of paganism with Christianity and the truth was compromised and lies have been believed for over 2,000 years now. KEEP DIGGING. Ask Him to show you and give you wisdom and discernment to set aside what you've been fed from the pulpit and have assumed as true and let the word tell you what it truly says. So many lies to unlearn. God help us!!

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      • Julie says:

        Because Christian apologetics can only go so far… Born-again Christians over generations have established their 'Sabbath' on Sundays.. That today is simply a Practical aspect and no longer should be a theological discourse as to whether we should accurately meet on a Saturday (which is an Old Testament law) The whole purpose of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and New Testament is that Jesus has set us free from the Law and into The law of Grace… The insistence for the church to move all their events and day of worship to a Saturday insteas of Sunday is nothing but a Legalistic Stronghold. The revelatiln of Jesus Christ and establishing Jesus-Centree communities actually makes EVERY DAY a day of worship.. Every day belongs to the Lord and His purposes… Jesus24/7 !!! (Don't forget even Jesus was challenged by the 'religous' for healing on the Sabbath!! Jesus sets us the example for us to follow and he fulfilled the Old Testament… Same reason as why do dont sacrifice animals at rituals anymore!

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      • diane says:

        Julie, You will have to show me in Scripture where is says God ever revoked His law. Because He said: I will not change the thing that has gone out of My mouth. I do not change. I am the same yesterday, today and forever. Every day does belong to the LORD, but He did not bless and sanctify every day…there is only one day we can keep holy. He commandes us not to work on the Sabbath, so we can not possibly keep everyday holy. Please read the 4th commandment. And it's not one day in seven but rather it is the 7th day. We do not sacrifice animals anymore because of what it says in Daniel 9:27 but please do not make the same mistake mainstream churchianity is making and think that we are to sit in the place of judgment over God and tell Him what part of His holy and righteous law we don't have to keep anymore.
        If He is truly LORD of your life, you will let Him lead and not follow after the traditions of men. Constantine was also in part responsible for changing worship from the Sabbath to the first day…Sunday. You certainly do not need to take my word for it, please study it out for yourself. There is not one thus saith the LORD anyone can point to to do away with His law/Torah. I won't continue to debate with you, because I'm not trying to stir up strife here, but Julie, you've come this far…test and prove everything to see where you really stand.

        God Bless you!

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      • Julie says:

        The difference and Justification is by Spiritual Discernment of the Holy Spirit as there are many things that were part of Old Testament. Beleifs, traditions, cultures and Torah Law or Biblical Law O.T. That we have no need to have continued with… To make way for the New Wine each Harvest… Anything else that troubles you like Saturdsy or Sunday for worship, Chritmas or Easter (Lent) for Christians these are more coming from a Pharisee mindset that is has a spirit of Legalism that is a Spiritual Stronghold and barrier to a Real personal relationship and salvation with Jesus Christ.
        And I didn'nt say God revoked his law I said that Jesus Christ became the Fulfillment of the Law to move His people into the Law of Grace.. In the Father heart of God as long as each Christian / Jesus-Centred Christian gives One day of rest and worship out of the week it does NOT make any difference… God knows many of His people Worship Him on a Saturday and God also knows many of His people.worship on a Sunday.. As long as people are worshiping the Lord from their hearts that is what ignites His amazing anointing and the Glory of heaven on earth!! (Plenty people attend their day or worship on a sat/sun out of duty and tradition yet still do not know God i their heart) so its of no use to make an issue on which day is more Holy among two different cultures.. The Saturday is related to Jewish culture and sub-groups Sunday is mostly related to Protestant and Catholic Christians mixed group of ethnicities and tribes.. At the end of the day it is up to God whom he choses to bless and give providence too on whatever day He choses!!

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      • Kristie says:

        Julie, I absolutely agree with you! This is what Jesus said…Amen! And his name Thomas, in English form, comes up as Joshuah..phonetically pronounced yah-shoe-ahh.

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      • godsfingers says:

        It grieves me when Judaizers come in pushing the Sabbath button. First, the Sabbath is the law and death, just to be clear. Second, you can observe the Sabbath AND go to Sunday worship if you want. Sunday worship and Sabbath observance are not the same thing. Sunday worship celebrates our risen King on resurrection Sunday, The early church met everyday of the week. We aren't RCC so participating in a Christmas or Easter isn't the paganism claimed either, unless of course you enter into the pagan practices. As I pointed out before, because Jews would not have known Jesus date of birth, Christmas on the 25th is more likely associated with Chanukah, the 25th of the month of Kislev, anti-antisemitism would then have put it on the Roman calendar.

        You miss a whole lot in that our salvation is in Christ so look in Matt 22:34-40 …"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it; Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the prophets hang on these two commandments."

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    • toddreeder says:

      You said what i was thinking reading this article. Paganism as been in the "church" for thousands of years. I have been told by many "preachers thee is noting wrong with celebrating Jesus birth on December 25. And that day was not chosen because of the winter solstice. And that the Christmas decorations have no pagan origin. And there is nothing wrong with christianizing pagan traditions like a tree, yule log and all the other stuff. And how much is the birth of Jesus on the mind of "Christians" when they are running around like scared mice trying to buy presents and decorate for the holidays? They can better think about it if they sit quietly at home. And that Easter has nothing to do with Ishtar, Isis or Nimrod. And that the name Easter has no pagan origin. And nothing wrong with Easter egg hunts, bunnies, and candy. If Easter is the celebration of Jesus resurrection why not call it resurrection Sunday? To most of the world celebrating Easter has nothing to do with Christianity. To them it is about Easter egg hunts, bunnies, and candy. Having ham with family at home or in a restaurant. And preachers claim there are many reasons that the church meets on the first day of the week. The most given reason is that Jesus was crucified on Good Friday and arose on the first day of the week. But Jesus said For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Good Friday to Sunday morning is not three days and three nights, Many have said that even an hour is called a day. And some say the heart of the earth does not mean in the tomb. They say it means Jesus was not seen for three days and three nights. Many Messianic believers say that the Passover occurred earlier in the week. And that Jesus spent three days and three nights in the tomb. 72 hours. And the the Resurrection occurred on the Sabbath. The seventh day. Most Christians say Jesus arose on Sunday morning because Mary Magdalene went to the tomb Sunday morning and the stone was removed. That doesn't prove the resurrection happened on Sunday. She would not have went on the Sabbath because it would have been a sin to go on the Sabbath. So Sunday morning was the earliest she could go. That does not prove Jesus resurrected Sunday. People like to make the bible say what they want to justify what they do. And say Easter and Christmas are ok. And many churches have trunk or treat. Which is like trick or treat. Just a safer alternative. And they say trick or treat has nothing to do with Satan or paganism. And Jesus name wasn't Jesus. Joshua would be the closest thing to Yehoshua. The Hebrew name. "Christians" have many things wrong.

      Like

    • Thomas Mitchell says:

      Marie, I would also like to note that a Hebrew born in Israel of old would of also had a Hebrew name not an English name.

      Like

    • Luigi Nesbitt says:

      Romans 14:5
      One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
      Romans 14:17
      For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
      Colossians 2:16
      Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
      True Rest

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    • David says:

      "No Christmas. No Easter." Nonsense. In the early church it was calculated that the crucifixion of the Christ occurred on March 25. It was thought that Christ's coming into the world, his conception, and his leaving, His death, occurred on the same day so as to show the perfection of the Father's dispensation and mastery over time and nature. Nine months after March 25, the feast of the Annunciation, is December 25, the feast of the Birth of Christ. It's not a pagan festival.____As for celebrating these: people celebrate birthdays and wedding anniversaries even though they honor the person and the marriage respectively every day.

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  2. Marie says:

    I also want to add few other observations. Please bear with me.

    In seminary, the pastors in training learn these truths concerning christmas and easter, then turn around and preach and teach the lies from the Nicolatian pulpit system.

    Why don't pastors have the courage to speak the truth to the rest of us sheep? Why don't they teach us the truths they learned in seminary instead of succumbling to the culture? What are they afraid of……..that the Holy Spirit might actually move in the hearts and minds of men instead of the pretend spirits they conjure up with louder music, repetitive droning phrases and increased theatrical productions….I guess it's called worship?

    What are pastors really afraid of…..the truth?

    Like

    • toddreeder says:

      Maybe they are afraid that people will leave because they are told that it is wrong. And less people means less money. And they want to give people what they want to hear. that what they are doing is ok. Heaven forbid that they offend someone. Many stop going to churches that tell them what they are doing is wrong. Such as living together when not married. Using things that cause damage to the body like smoking and excessive drinking. Watching movies or tv shows that "Christians" shouldn't be watching. Or listening to music that "Christians" shouldn't be listening to.

      Like

    • Daniel says:

      Losing their paycheck.

      Like

  3. Julie says:

    So sad to hear this, Breaking new ground should NOT lead to compromising the Sacrdness of Gods Truth….

    Leaders if you are listening… Re-focus on creating Jesus-Centred-Communities and a good reminder if your not sure about integrity ask 'What would Jesus do' then reflect on Gods Word The Bible…. Do not lean on the world of man and mans understanding to do Gods purposes just not going to work or anointed by God sorry..

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  4. Bettineolive says:

    Any church that encourages pagan rites (& agan rites in the church is nothing new) is part of 'Babylon the Great' as described in Revelation chapter 17. She is called a harlot because of her unfaithfulness to God and His Word John 17:17). This is the time of the end, in which the Prince of Peace will bring judgment against the devil & is cohorts – including those who prefer the lie instead of the truth. 'Babylon the Great' will be destroyed.That is why Jesus, in His prophecy concerning these times, is urging everyone to "Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins & you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together up to heaven and God has called her acts of injustice to mind" Rev chap 18

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  5. Colette says:

    Matthew 23 v 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

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  6. Denise says:

    How sad for the Anglicans to go this way. Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. He is the only TRUTH. May the Anglicans around the world open their eyes and protest against this wrong path. May the dead bones of religion come to live by humbling themsevles, repent and seeking God's heart who is a Father's heart.

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  7. Marie says:

    The church system has already combined paganism with Christianity already, so this is nothing new. This form of spiritism is just a continuation of the abominations that have already been adopted by the clergy system and force fed to the ignorant sheep.

    Can a born again believer and follower of Jesus Christ grow closer to Him without honoring, practicing, and celebrating christmas, easter, all saints day, or any other man-made tradition not mentioned in The Word? Absolutely……the fruits of the Holy Spirit are alive and well!

    All praise, glory, and honor belongs to the LORD, and Him alone.

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  8. diane says:

    Woa, wait a minute please !! Christmas is about the birth of Jesus and easter is when God showed us that there is life after death.

    Like

    • Marie says:

      Thanks Diane,

      Please show me the lines and verses from our Scriptures which state that , as born again believers, should celebrate christmas or easter and I will recant. However, if there is no verse commanding us to honor these traditions, perhaps we need to repent and ask God to forgive us for honoring Him in a way that the pagans recognize rather than true Christianity.

      Jesus did not shed His blood for christmas and ishtar, but for our sins…and the redeemed can worship Him in spirit and in truth anywhere and any day, not just designated day as required by man…..but by His Spirit.

      Like

      • Julie says:

        Luke 22:19 1 Corinthians 11:24 = scripture to explain why Christians reflect and honour Jesus Christ Suffering and Crucifixion and Resurection (At the general calender season known as Easter for both pagans, atheists and Chrisitans as it has become a public holiday and half-term for kids regardless of beleifs!) The time Jesus was Crucified etc..would no doubt clash with other cultures and faith celebrations and rituals… The Christian rememberance relates to the Passover meal and the Last Supper and the Good Friday and whole period of Easter for Christians is actually LENT not Easter! And it is an extension of the taking of Communion every Sunday/Saturday as the dates for Lent are symbolosed as an extra special Communion more to reflect on the Last supper and Jesus ordeal as he took on our pain for our sins before being Gloriously Resurected…….
        http://www.christmaspirit.com/scripture.htm Explains Scriptures as to WHY we celebrate Jesus Birth and Life as.the Gift of Life, and The gifts we bless each other with reflect the gifts given by the 3 Shepherds/wise men/ kings, Particularly at Christmas when its cold it would be a time when the sick, poor, young would suffer more and as it is also a public holiday with most people spending quality time with family Many people struggle at Christmas as they may have no family, homeless,.addictions, poor and lonely.. So it is the most God anointed time for the Good news of the Gospel and Jesus coming to speak to peoples hearts and for us to share Blessings to each other with care and support, token gifts or food and clothes for the homeless in winter… Just because other cultures and faiths have their rituals and celebrations should NOT stop Christians from celebrating our in Faith, Joy and Love with our families, churches and communities… (On a practical note schools could close for holidays for every faith celebration there is so perhaps this was the reasoning behind the confusion of dates etc.. Same issue for employment.. ). And lastly not everything Christians discern has to be literally spelled out in Scripture… Thats why we have the Holy Spirit to guide us also!

        Like

      • BMW says:

        "….it is the most God-anointed time for the Good news of the Gospel and Jesus coming to speak to peoples' hearts…."
        I would think that the God-anointed time would be every day…not just during one time of the year! So, let's be kind and take care of our fellow man on one day, and the rest of the year, "I got mine, you worry about getting yours' mentality!

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      • shawnie says:

        Amen!

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      • Marty says:

        The words "I would think" should give pause to anyone who seeks to be holy as He is holy. For people to do what seems right in their own eyes has already been done and continues to be done. Read the Book of Judges and 1 & 2 Kings to see example upon example of what man is capable of when left to his own thinking. We have teaching and instruction from the Creator Himself who loves the world so much that He sent us His Word at two pivotal times in history, when He brought His people out of Egypt and when Yeshua Messiah (Jesus Christ) came into the world. All we need do is believe that He is and rewards those who diligently seek Him, then exert every effort to enter by the narrow gate. Live your life by the Word he's given us and do not add to it or subtract from it.

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    • diane says:

      Hi diane,

      Sorry, fraid not…both Christmas and Easter are pagan festivals. Do a little research, it's not hard to find out what they really arose from and it has nothing to do with God or His Son Jesus. Quite the opposite really. We've all just been lead to assume these things, but where in the Bible does it say anything about Dec 25th? But if you study Dec 25th you will find out about all of the pagan mythology it is associated with and the false pagan gods it celebrates.
      This is a bit of trickery by satan. I know it can be very difficult to come to terms with this because we all have such fond memories and it strikes at something so fundamental we've all grown up with but it truly is evil and I promise you it won't take much research to find that out for yourself. God never gave us Christmas and Easter to keep or any of the other pagan days…He gave us Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, Pentecost, Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Feast of Tabernacles (Tabernacles was when He was really born here on earth). I know, I know…you probably think it's just for the Jews, but God never said there was one thing for the Jews to do and something else for everybody else to do…in fact He says there is ONE law for all. If we are His and we are in covenant with Him then we keep His Torah. Shocking I know. But please, don't get mad about it. Please don't get defensive about it. Just go about studying it for yourself. We've all been lied too!!! For a very long time. satan has been very busy deceiving which is no surprise. But just study it out for yourself. Pray and ask God to lead you. Sometimes you just need to keep things between you and God because pastors (well meaning as they might be mislead people all the time- they too have been decieved in some instances and are just teaching what they've been taught)…we have to study to show ourselves approved. It won't be sufficient to tell God: Well, it's what my pastor taught me. We have to study and be good bereans and test everything to the word. Not what we think it says, but what it actually says.

      Like

  9. Ingenjör says:

    "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" – 1. Tim. 4:1

    Like

    • JerryMc says:

      The celebration of our Lord's birth and of His conquering death/Hell/the grave is worthy and I believe honored by our Creator.Christmas/Easter are only terms that signify these glorius events.. and I will continue to celebrate. Amen.

      Like

  10. Dave Mosher says:

    Amy and Mike, thanks for the heads up.

    I did a little research on this – apparently this is not the first time Anglicans/the Church of England have rubbed shoulders with pagans (Druids, etc.). Check out this article from August 2002: http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2002/08/Anglican-Ar… I'm wondering if the ties go back even further…

    God bless you – Dave

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    • diane says:

      Exactly so…that's part of how we got Christmas and Easter, was from the time when the pagans were brought into the church the first time around. Pagans will plainly tell you they are their festivals. Read an article once by a self professed pagan about Christmas, (which they call Yule) and Easter (which is a fertility goddess…hence the bunnies and the eggs!) and Valentines, all saints etc…all pagan…and this pagan said they were sick and tired of so called Christians taking over their festivals! She said she wanted her holidays back.

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  11. lyn says:

    Julie

    the term 'easter' and 'christmas' are not biblically based terms, they are not found in Scripture. Bible scholars believe Christ was actually born around Sept. – Nov. They base this on the fact that the shepherds were in the fields at night watching over their flock when the angel announced the good news {Luke chapter 2}. This would not have been possible near the end of December, when the cold would have prevented the shepherds from being in the fields.

    I encourage you to read the origin of the celebration of Christmas at http://www.apuritansmind.com/puritan-worship/chri

    Concerning Easter, I recommend http://www.apuritansmind.com/the-christian-walk/e

    As for Lent, this is not a biblical mandate either, it is a liturgical practice. Why would you have to give something up? Did Christ not say 'it is finished', therefore, what could we add to His work? This is as puzzling as 'ash wednesday'.

    We may observe the birth of Christ {and should, every day we have on earth} and should observe His death, burial and resurrection, which most churches do when they present the Lord's supper. However, to call these observances what the world and/or pagan religions call them is not wise.

    In 1 Corinthians 11:24-25, the Apostle Paul gives us Christ's words concerning partaking of the bread and cup, 'do this in remembrance of me'. This is why we gather for the Lord's supper, to somberly recall and ponder what Christ has done for His people, the agony and suffering He endured on behalf of God's elect.

    As for gift giving, again, the Bible does not command us to give presents to our children. This is a man-made tradition that is fueled by retailers worldwide for the sake of the almighty dollar, it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ, nor does the Bible mandate it. The gifts given by the Magi were for Christ, they were NOT given to other humans, so your argument cannot be substantiated or supported with God's word. By the way, the Bible does not give us the number of magi that came to see the babe.

    I also want to address your statement, "And lastly not everything Christians discern has to be literally spelled out in Scripture… " if the word of God is not your sole authority, then you will fall into worldly deception. If you cannot find answers in His word, then you should remain in the word and in prayer until God reveals His truth to you. Never should we act outside of the word of God; this was the cry of the Reformation, 'Sola Scriptura!', and with good reason. Straying from God's word always produces horrendous results.

    The unregenerate world celebrates Christmas and Easter, in idolatrous fashion. They satisfy their 'god' of materialism by running up huge credit card debt to purchase the latest gadget [or whatever] for their children, children who need to hear the word of God more than they need 'stuff'. Christ is NOT the center of these holiday celebrations, for if He were, there would not be such huge amounts of money spent on presents, on decorations, on chocolate bunnies, on easter baskets, etc. What does any of that have to do with God's Son coming into this world to die on a cross, to bear the sins of His people and to atone for those sins? Absolutely nothing.

    In the end, there is no biblical mandate found in God's word that tells us we must celebrate Christmas, as for the Lord's supper, I have already given scriptural support for partaking in that. There is no biblical mandate that tells us we must celebrate Easter, especially if you mingle your celebration with worldly paganism. It is time the true church of Christ step away from the world and it's pagan influences. There is a reason why the Apostle Paul tells us to "COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. – 2 Corinthians 6:17

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    • Julie says:

      I will state once more that period of Christmas and Easter are PUBLIC holidays REGARDLESS of what people believe and whether they celebrate these or OTHER festivals… So if your place of work and your children or grandchildrens schools are CLOSED due to the FACT these festivals you rightly choose for your family not to partake your kids would still NOT be able to attend and access their school nor you access work (if the building is shut up for 2 weeks). So does the fsct you and your kids also get this public holiday mean you are yolking yourself with pagan practices… NO it does not.. When the kids go back to school the teacher asks 'so what did you do in the Christmas/Easter holidays…. The pagans will enjoy sharing their enjoyment and festivities… The Jehovahs Witnesses kids will explain how they enjoyed Quality time with family and friends and they would explain what they did that is different from presents,.trees etc.. The Jewish kids would delight in sharing their celebrations Passover and others.. The Born-again Christians would share the many Good Blessings that helped people and families as well as each other in Thanksgiving… General Christian kids (some whose parents may not yet be spirit-filled) will have similar celebrations as born again Christians.. Atheist kids would share also how they loved fun family time and even they may partake in gift-giving out of a simple thankyou to friends and family.. This is NOT a sin… It is the Love of money/possesions that is the root of evil Not money/things themselves!! It is a balance and moderate discipline

      You seem to merging the pagan meaning and their festivities with the completely SEPERATE Faith and worship celebrations of Christians… We share the same date BIG DEAL Gods understanding is far,.far deeper than mans, God knows the nature of humans and He also turns All.things around for HIS Honour and HIS Glory!

      I understand Lyn and diane how you both feel that Christians have compromised Gods word and their faith. God has given each of us free-will and human discernment comew with growth tho we also can ask for Spiritual discernment, sometimes one person/Christian feels strongly about one issue that they feel would compromise their walk in the Lord. Another person/Christian may not feel as strongly about the same issue and do not feel their faith would be compromised… The key to both is as long as both people continue in a close relationship with God and Christ God will guide both and both will grow and be challenged in different ways

      There will always be contentions between one person and another, whether they are in the same fellowship,.same faith, different faith and secular.. We need to focus on Jesus-centred communities and to get people into a real relationship with Jesus so they can engage in Spiritual Christianity and not Relgious Christianity that is like-warm or no more than bones (Ezekiel). Other contentions like we should worship on a Saturday not Sunday, we need to not celebrate anything at Christmas and Lent/Easter as Christians…these are simply going to push new Christians and many unsaved people away from engaging with Christian fellowship and God…

      Like

  12. Julie says:

    Amen and Amen!!

    Like

  13. lyn says:

    We should celebrate Christ coming here for His own every day, however, does that mean we should be yoked with a pagan ritual known as Christmas?
    No one says you cannot give the Lord glory for what He has done, but do look into the origin of both the Christ-mass holiday as well as Easter. Their origin and roots are pagan, and God despises pagan idol worship. Do you want to be yoked with that?
    The Israelite people fell into pagan worship and were judged by God, do you think we are any different or better than they?

    It all comes down to this, is there a biblical mandate that requires us to celebrate Dec.25th as the day of the birth of Christ, or to set aside a day in Mar.-Apr. to celebrate His death, burial and resurrection? The Lord's supper was instituted as a somber means of recalling the crucifixion of our Lord {see Luke 22:19, 1 Cor. 11:24-25} Is the word of God the sole source of truth and guidance for God's people, or does the world dictate your celebrations?

    Like

    • Julie says:

      No one can know see or judge the heart of another man/woman even fellow believers i Christ Jesus, what you speak of is called Legalistic thinking… God.is the one who sees and knows esch persons heart… And God would rather 1000 sinners repent and worship the Lord and be saved on a Sunday than none of them at all! Every tribe had and has their own festivals so it is not that Christmas and Lent are anyhing remotely to.do with pagan celebations… All it means is that the same dates for Christmas and Lent/Easter dues to the fact that the Employers could only allow all workers to have one public holiday to make it easier and more functional… The dates at Christmas and Lent/Easter are a totally Jesus-Centred and Gospel-focused (New Testament) celebration for Christians and those seeking God And the dates at Christmas and Easter have a totally different symbolic meaning for Pagans… The same that Diwali restival of lights happens around other Christian festivals…. Where in the Bible does it say you should celebrate your birthday? I am sure plenty other. People share the same date of birth and year you were born… People born into all different kinds of beliefs and cultures with related rituals…. Lets not throw the baby out.with the bath water here.

      Like

      • lyn says:

        This is NOT about judging, as I stated, we should celebrate Christ coming here every day, and we should partake of the Lord's table in remembrance of Him. Please, look up the term 'legalism' before you falsely accuse. I am NOT against celebrating the birth of Christ or His finished work, but the holidays you refer to are pagan in origin. They are 'of the world', and believers are not of the world. We are called to be separate, to come out from among them. That would include the holidays pagan religions have given the world, such as Christmas.

        Again, I refer to the word of God, where is the biblical mandate to celebrate Dec. 25th as the day Christ was born? Where is the biblical mandate to celebrate a day from Mar. – Apr. and call it Easter found in Holy Writ? Where is the biblical mandate to perform the liturgical act of Lent found in the word of God?

        I have a comment awaiting moderation that supplies this link – http://www.apuritansmind.com/puritan-worship/chri

        It also contains this link – http://www.apuritansmind.com/the-christian-walk/e

        I would only ask that you show, from the word of God, where Christmas, Easter, and Lent are spoken of and mandated to the New Testament Church.

        Like

      • Amy Spreeman says:

        Posts with links do end up in the moderation queue. On weekends it takes me a while to get to them.

        Like

      • lyn says:

        The definition of legalism – strict, literal, or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code. Nowhere in my comments did I state you must adhere to a law or religious code. I specifically stated we should celebrate the birth of Christ, everyday. I also stated we should recall His finished work on the cross as we come to the Lord's table, so your accusation is without merit.

        I would ask that you show, from the word of God, where we are commanded to celebrate Christmas, Easter and Lent. I also have provided a couple of links for you in previous comments that await moderation; these links speak of the origin of Christmas and Easter. Neither of these holidays have a biblical basis, they are man-made traditions that do not exalt Christ. Instead, they exalt retailers as they get rich off the money spent on presents for children who need the word of God more than they need an ipod, or a chocolate bunny or Easter basket. Christ must share His birth with a fictitious fat guy in a red suit with a beard, for Santa is indeed front and center at Christmas. As for Easter, Christ plays second fiddle to a bunny and some hidden colored eggs. Where is all this found in the bible? Please, prove your point from the word of God. Show me, from scripture, the biblical mandate to celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th and Easter in the Spring.

        Like

      • Julie says:

        The issue of Legalism I think was in response to another persons posts who are pre-occupied with the Holy day being on a Saturday and not a Sunday..

        As a Christian and Christians who are Spirit-filled in Christ we do NOT celebrate Easter we celebrate/contemplate the Biblical journey of Jesus from the Last Supper, his betrayal, his torture, his carrying the Cross, his immense sufferring on the Cross and public ridicule, Jesus Amazing forgiveness, and His Resurection. As part of the season near Lent is The Harvest Feast…. – There are plenty of Sciptures that teach the Wisdom of the Harvest both Earthly fruits and Spiritual fruits that bith need to be prepared, watered, nutured and harvested…

        You seem to presume that Christians take part in the Easter pagan beliefs and activities… No we don't. However At the Harvest time we give God the Glory and thanksgiving for the Good fruits of HIS Creation… Spring is the season that God made to produce the first fruits animals have their babies, Flowers start to bloom, Fields yield their rich crops!! This is NOT the work of pagans but of Gods Hand and Heart over his Beloved creation and people..

        Also. Atheists/non-believers do not celebrate Easter or Lent or Christmas in relation to the faith aspects BUT they freely enjoy extra time off work and their kids enjoy time of school due to the fact that these Christian and Pagan celebrations are public holidays!

        God judges and blesses the Heart of a person and their expression of faith to Him… Itis not for any man/women to dictate to another believer how they should live out their faih or what God will accept or condemn…

        As Chrisitans we need to focus on The Great Commission of Salvation in Jesus Christ and to share this throughout the World… Many many people come to he Lord during Christmas and Lent because Christmas and Lent are deeply moving and blessed times of the year for Christians
        And to deny Gods people their ownership of celebrating Christmas and Lent that DOES honour God and his purposes and IS Jesus-centred is wrong.

        Pagans can have their celebrations, Jews their passovers, Diwali for Hindus, so Christians have a right to establish their own celebrations whether it is literally spelled out in scripture or just an expression of Worship and Remebrance!! through extended quality time in fellowship, prayer, thanksgiving, Good-will to each other like the Good Samaritan!, and enjoying the first fruits of the Harvest that is God given! The basis for this in scripture read Romans 8:28 Blessings!

        Like

      • diane says:

        God knows the heart…and when we say in our heart I can keep these pagan holidays because to ME they are about Christ. That is disobedience…that is going your own way. He asks us to worship Him in TRUTH and in Spirit, not according to the traditions of men. By the way, Jesus was a legalist by someone's definition on here. It's the wrong definition though. But He did strictly adhere to the Torah of His Father. If He didn't then He would have sinned and could never have paid the price for us.
        Legalism (the true meaning) is when you keep the Torah or law of God because you think in doing so you can earn something or that you have justified yourself. Not possible. God says IF YOU LOVE ME- Keep My commandments. Obedience is how we show our love to God. Most Christians want to just focus on how God loves them…grace, grace, grace. Well, what about loving Him, according to how HE Defines it- which is obedience. Legalism or obedience? It's a matter of the heart. The first one is for the wrong motivation…it's doing the right thing, but for the wrong reason…and God knows it. Obedience is keeping God's law because you love Him, because you see how holy and righteous it is, and because you are saved. It's not TO BE saved, but because you are. Christ in us makes it possible and that is His promise. With Christ ALL things are possible…didn't you know?

        Like

  14. lyn says:

    Here is the origin of Christmas…

    The origins of Christmas go back to before the time of Christ when many ancient cultures celebrated the changing of the seasons. In the northern hemisphere in Europe, for example, the winter solstice, which was the shortest day of the year, occurs around Dec. 25th. These celebrations were based on the decline of winter. Since during winter animals were penned, people stayed in doors, crops didn't grow, etc., to know that winter was half over and on its way out was a time of celebration.

    In the ancient Roman system of religion, Saturn was the god of agriculture. Each year during the summer, the god Jupiter would force Saturn out of his dominant position in the heavenly realm and the days would begin to shorten. In the temple to Saturn in Rome, the feet of Saturn were then symbolically bound with chains until the winter solstice when the length of days began to increase. It was this winter solstice that was a time of celebration and exchange of gifts as the hardness of winter began to wane and the days grew longer.

    December 25th specifically coincided the day of the birth of the sun-god named Phyrgia a culture in the ancient Balkans.

    In the Roman Empire, by the time of Christ the winter festival was known as saturnalia. The Roman Church was unable to get rid of saturnalia, so early in the 4th Century, they adopted the holiday and tried to make it a Christian celebration of the Lord's birth. They called it the Feast of the Nativity. This custom has been part of western culture ever since.

    The Christmas Tree and Mistletoe

    One of the symbols of the life found in the celebration of saturnalia, was the use of evergreens. These plants which stayed green all year long, were often used in different cultures as symbols of life and rebirth. They were sometimes decorated as a form of worship in varied cultures in religious ceremonies dealing with fertility.

    Mistletoe was considered a curative plant and was used in many ancient medicine recipes. The Celts even believed that the plant, which is a parasite that lives on trees, contained the soul of the tree on which it lived. The Druids used Mistletoe in their religious ceremonies. The Druid priests would cut it up and distribute it to the people who would place the cuttings over the doorways of their homes. This was supposed to protect the dwellers from various forms of evil.

    Thanks to Matt Slick at carmdotorg

    Like

  15. lyn says:

    Diane,

    well said, I believe your definition of legalism is an extension of what I'd given, yours being more 'in-depth' than mine. Thank you for bringing clarity to that misused term.

    Obeying Christ does indeed stem from a heart that loves Him, a heart that has been changed by Him. As you so rightly stated, it is not to be saved, it is because we are saved that we obey. You also rightly stated that grace and love are the main focus of most Christians, but that is a lopsided balance. Grace and obedience go hand in hand.

    Like

  16. Julie says:

    #Diane,

    Jesus came to be a Fulfillment of the Law… Jesus set us free from Legalistic bondage from the Old Testament Law… Because God knew that His people would not be able to consistently be obedient to every Law in the Torah..

    I celebrate my birthday on 22nd Jan every year, I am not the only person who celebrates their birthday on that day… Some may be Chrisitan, some atheist, others will be pagan.. Just because a number of people share my birthday who are pagan does NOT make my Birthday celebration a pagan event.. My Birthday celebration is what I choose it to be.. It is fellowship with my family and friends and based on my values and faith..

    Like

    • Kristie Jacobson says:

      Julie I completely get and agree with what you are saying but when a person's mind is so set in it's own ways, there is no amount of correction or proof that will move them. Only God can, and all we can do is pray for those who cannot or will not understand. Thank you and may God bless every one of us.

      Like

    • Lisa Hayle says:

      Jesus came to be the fulfillment of the law within us. We walk just as he walked. Otherwise to be born again is futile.

      Like

  17. lyn says:

    Amy,

    I understand….

    Like

  18. Sharon W. says:

    The worldly & pagan mixing w/ Christianity has been going on for a long, long, long time….they just be stepping up in activity & visibility.

    Celebrating the reality of the historical events of the NATIVITY and Hanukkah/Feast of Dedication (John 10:22)
    is NOT (=)
    To celebrating Christmas, which IS [in part], of pagan origin revolving around the Roman feast of Saturnalia & Western traditions.

    The emphasis in the NT is on the second "spiritual" birth, not the first physical birth.
    The Nativity [w/ no verifiable precise known date] & Hanukkah are theological, historical events meant to be understood as "foreshadows" of what is to come!
    The First Coming of Jesus teaches us of His Second Coming.

    Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread (Matthew 26:17) & Feast of First Fruits
    death & Resurrection [verifiable dates]
    is NOT (=)
    To Easter (Ashtoreth-pagan), Western traditions and a KJV mistranslation.

    The death & resurrection of Jesus is also to be spiritually applied to the life of believers…[ Romans 6:5, Philippians 3:10, Colossians 2:12, 3:1 and more]

    Like

    • diane says:

      Exactly Sharon, and the history of what those pagan holidays (Christmas, Easter, Lent, Valentines, All Saints day etc) all revolve around things that are ABOMINABLE to God. God says think NOT to ask after how the heathen worship their gods and think to worship me that way. God wants us to worship according to HIS ways not our own and certainly not the way of the heathen…for these things are of satan. Some of these "celebrations" involved sex orgies to their fertility god/goddess and others involved human sacrifice…now people seriously think "in their heart" they can keep it to honor, worship and glorify Jesus Christ or His Father??? No, again these things are abominable to Him. Frankly what we think or prefer are a waste of time…it is what the Father commands. Period. If you believe you can keep these pagan days to Christ then you have departed from what the very word of God says on the matter. You are leaning on your own understanding…which will get us in trouble every time. Please do not think that I'm trying to sway you to my way. It's HIS way that I am pointing too. If you profess to be His, do the things that He says for He says if you love Me keep My commandments.
      Oh yeah, it means changing your life. It means doing things differently and instead of living for your own pleasures and comforts it means living for HIM. When you please yourself it is self worship, please don't be deceived and you have put yourself ahead of God. Remember you shall have no other gods before me? He wasn't joking around I assure you.
      Not trying to be attacking or critical or mean spirited in the least, just giving you the facts…in love I am giving it and I hope and pray you will heed and do your own study. Don't soothe and comfort yourself with a lie and think you can pass it off to an all knowing God. You say: God knows my heart. Oh yes, yes He does…do you know what He says about it? That it is deceitful and wicked above all things. When you have been presented with truth and you choose to blithely go about your way, you are saying God, I don't care…I like my way…after all everybody is doing it aren't they? There surely can't be any harm in it can there? Everybody can't be wrong can they?? Surely not! Don't be so sure my sister, my brother. God will hold us accountable because we could have known these things but didn't care to be bothered.
      Yes, your friends and family would think you strange not following along as you always have. I won't lie to you…there is some sacrifice, and guess what, we were warned there would be and it is to be expected. Now will be the time to see if you are faithful in the little things before the really big things come.
      Have you not noticed what time it is?! What times are nearly upon us??? Time to wake up and test yourselves to see if you really be in the faith or are you just soothing yourself and getting your ears tickled. Don't get mad my brother, my sister. Get studying and praying to know what is true!!! And don't settle for the lies of satan any longer.

      Like

      • Sharon W. says:

        Years ago, I started moving away from joining in with some western traditions around Holidays & celebrations. I started slow then increased in speed. I have no regrets!

        Sure, it can be tricky or uncomfortable at times (okay, real uncomfortable at times), but not impossible!…we have an Advocate and access to a Magnificent God. [Hebrews 4:16]
        If we submit, He can teach, test and empower us by His Spirit to be instruments of His Grace and Mercy and Truth…that's part of the journey to our heavenly home.

        Like

  19. diane says:

    Dear Julie,

    I hear you, but your reasoning is not biblical is it. Jesus in His own words said (Matt 5:17-19) I did NOT come to do away with the Torah! Please get your Bible out and read those verse…until heaven and earth pass away- NOT one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law/Torah. Has that happened, Sister? No it has not.

    The apostle Peter WARNED us that Paul's writings which are hard to understand:
    2 Peter 3:13-18

    Nevertheless, we according to His promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found in Him in peace, without spot and blameless: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation – as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are SOME THINGS HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WHICH UNTAUGHT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE TWIST TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION, AS THEY DO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the ERROR OF LAWLESSNESS; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen

    Paul is the only apostle that a warning is given about. First, Paul didn't die for your sins, Jesus did. So if you are confused by Paul, you aren't alone…he was misunderstood over 2,000 years ago and falsely accused then of doing away with the law/torah…but that is completely contrary to what he practiced himself and it's completely contrary to what Jesus Himself said with His own mouth.

    People seem to think satan hasn't been at work trying to mislead people. Are you aware that the Torah of God is called the Law of Liberty?! How then can we call what God calls liberty, bondage??? This is quite an enormous study, but I'm afraid you've been lied too. Paul was NOT teaching against the Torah. Paul had an interesting job…he was sent to teach the Jews that they could not keep the law for salvation. And you can't!!! Salvation is NOT earned by works as the Jews believed, that is misuse of the law and it is not understanding our truly desperate condition without Christ! He alone can save us. But Paul was also sent to teach the gentiles and he needed to show them the righteousness of the law and to keep it. He was celebrating the feast days with those in Philippi (gentile converts! why was he doing that if they weren't to be keeping it?? Because we ARE to be keeping it). Now a lot of people will point to Acts 15 and say, but, but, but!!! Well, read it carefully. Certain men were trying to say the gentiles HAD TO BE circumcised TO BE SAVED. We can not keep any part of the law to be saved, nor should that be our motivation. That is against Christ. But then don't be deceived into thinking that God doesn't expect you to keep it…yes, He does. He gave it to us to bless us. Read Dueteronomy, read Ps. 119. God's word is eternal, it STILL STANDS. His law is holy, righteous and good converting the soul!! Let me ask you something…why would He deliver (rescue) the Israelites out of Egyptian bondage only to put them back in bondage with His law??? Do we think God is confused? That He doesn't know what He's doing??? Do we think that He insists we keep it one minute and then says Oh, never mind the next??? His word is established eternally. He does not change. He will not alter the thing that has gone out of His mouth. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. He DOES NOT LIE. He can NOT LIE.

    Again, let me ask you something…do you not think satan has been about trying to lie, deceive and mislead people for thousands of years…did you think you or your church were immune? Well if you did, he was once again successful!! Again, I'm not trying to be rude or spiteful or belittle you, but I am- for the LOVE OF GOD- trying to get your attention. I pray one of you, even if it's just one of you will pay attention and begin to really test all things to the word of God. Take off the church filters, put aside everything you THINK you know, and let God lead you, let the BIBLE tell you what it says. Let Scripture interpret Scripture…because Jesus tells us that those who follow after the traditions of men in place of the commandments of God- they worship Him in vain. Don't be so quick to defend your position. Do be quick to pray and ask God to lead you to His truth. You don't want to be found defending a lie do you?

    Like

    • Julie says:

      Enjoy your walk in the Lord in the ways you choose and feel is right to Worship and celebrate your Faith in Jesus Christ..

      As I will continue to walk with the Lord and Worship, celebrate my Faith in Jesus Christ

      It is not for me to tell other Spirit-filled Christians how they are to live out their Faith…

      1 Corinthians 13:9 ' For we know in part and we prophesy in part' lets not allow our differences of discernment and understanding lead to unholy division among the Bridegroom of Christ…for that is playing right into the devils hands…

      Remember also that Gods own understanding is far deeper than our own human understanding…

      I do not need to. Comment on the issue of the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter Thanks for listening….

      Like

  20. diane says:

    well said.

    Like

  21. diane says:

    I leave you with this for your consideration

    Like

  22. Marie says:

    Hello Diane,

    There were several women within the church system that promoted the Torah, so I embarked on a study of the first five books of our Old Testament (Torah), as well as observing the fruit of their lives as proof of what it looks like to live the Torah.

    Truthfully speaking, they, as well as I have difficulty even following the Ten Commandments, and most within the religious system, especially these Torah promoting women, actually resemble the characteristics found in 2 Timothy 3:1-7.

    Also, I have a question for you…."So when these so called prophetesses in church falsely prophesy over people…..do we march them out to the back forty and stone them?" After all, we are under the Torah, are we not? And some of them are Torah promoters……if we follow one letter, then are we not to follow every jot and tittle as well?
    Sabbath.
    And like Jesus, I do collect food on the Sabbath….are prepare and eat it too.

    Like

    • diane says:

      Hi Marie,

      The stoning question always comes up 🙂
      No we don't and here is why. In the days that people were stoned there were appointed counsels to judge according to God's torah. Also when you read in
      the books of Samuel the Israelites said they wanted a king over them like the other
      nations. Samuel took this to mean that the Israelites were dissatisfied with his leadership, but God said no, it is Me they are rejecting as King over them. We
      are not a theocracy anymore. So now we don't mete out those punishments for
      adultery…even Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery (when everyone was
      prepared to stone her…neither do I condemn you, GO AND SIN NO MORE.
      (I'm not trying to shout when I do that, just emphasize the text).

      As for Sabbath, depending on what it is, I try to prepare it (cook it) on Friday so I'm not involved in preparation and cooking etc on Sabbath. I only need to reheat it.
      I save dishes for after Sabbath. All week long I am keeping the house tidy and may do some cleaning through out the week and Friday is the big day to get everything in order so that I really have a rest day on the Sabbath. I do not do any work on the Sabbath. But I will also scramble and cook myself some eggs on the Sabbath if I want too, but I don't get into preparing and cooking big meals on the Sabbath, just simple things because that is what it commands.

      I live in a cold climate and I use wood for heat so I do have a fire on the Sabbath. And honestly, I don't believe God is saying you can not keep yourself warm on the Sabbath. In fact I know it…I believe that is specifically referring to people using fire for working purposes since it was mentioned just before speaking of bring the gold and such for the sanctuary.

      You know how the Israelites would complain about this, that or the other and Moses would warn them, who am I?! You aren't complaining against me but the LORD! When we want to make His law seem unreasonable or ridiculous (and not saying you have done this, but I have spoken with people who do and who have)…we have to realize we are judging the very Author of that Law. When you read in Deut. 30:11-14, He tells us this is not too hard for us. And in chapters 27 and 28 He tells us there are curses for disobeying and blessings for obedience.

      We need to seek Him each day to help us to be faithful, to give us a pure heart, to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, to keep us in all of His ways, to give us His Spirit which He promises to do. He wants to enable us to do all that He asks us to do. In our own strength it is impossible.

      God Bless.

      God's word tells us that it is the carnal heart and mind that is at enmity with
      His law. We have to pray for a circumcised heart…that we may love Him with all of our heart, all of our soul, all of our mind and all of our strength. He tells us with men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. It also tells us that I can do all things through Christ who strengthen me. The gospel is the POWER OF GOD to work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. We each have been given a measure of faith, but what we really need is the faith of Jesus Christ (Here is the patience of the saints, those that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus Christ). We can not make it on our faith alone, we need the faith of Jesus Christ! Please know as I write this I am not saying I've by any stretch of the imagination attained perfection. Also remember we walk by faith and not by sight. We need to pray for the Spirit of Christ in us and accept it by faith and we need to have our faith link with His. Remember this is about dying to self and living out His life in us. He promises to abide in us, we have to believe that…otherwise we are people who merely have a form of godliness while denying the power. He means to do a powerful work in each of us, but it can not be done in a state of unbelief. (Let it be to you according to your belief). Yes, we struggle and we make mistakes and we fail to keep the law perfectly…that is why we need grace. Not so that we can toss aside His Torah but so we have His grace to help us. His grace is not to excuse us from keeping the Torah but to help us when we misstep and ultimately to enable us TO keep it in His Spirit.

      The law is spiritual. Jesus really pointed that out in the sermon on the Mount. Everybody thought they were doing good if they could keep it to the letter of the law, but He said to them…You have heard it said not to commit adultery, but I tell you if a man look at a woman to lust he has already committed adultery in his heart. That tell us that it's not good enough just to not commit the actual act, but that even our thoughts are to be clean and pure before God. It is spiritual. He also said, you have been told that whoever murders is in danger of judgment but I tell you if you are angry with your brother without cause you are in danger of judgment. Christ did not do away with the law, in fact He took it to a higher level! And He intends to work it in us. We must surrender and let Him do that. That is where we really struggle right there.

      Like

    • balletgirl:-) says:

      Thank you Marie! I agree. Jesus said that He came to fulfill the law:-D The law is death to us because there is no way we can keep it all. Just look at Saul before he became Paul, I mean he was MESSED up! Yet he kept that Torah didn't he? Well we should learn from the Torah and learn that we must be absolutely perfect to get to heaven and no ordinary human can do that. THAT IS THE WHOLE REASON CHRIST CAME DOWN. BECAUSE HE LOVED US DESPERATELY ENOUGH TO DIE FOR OUR IMPERFECTION AND BRING US BACK TO HIM! And as for this whole pagan holiday blah, well guess what? GOD CAN USE ANYTHING TO BRING GLORY TO HIS NAME. WE DON'T GO AROUND KILLING PAGAN CONVERTS TO CHRISTIANITY SO WHY STOP PAGAN HOLIDAYS THAT CHRISTIANS HAVE RECLAIMED?
      Alright Marie let's eat! 🙂

      Like

  23. Marie says:

    Thank-You Diane, I appreciate your explanation as it is impossible to live under the Law and Jesus knew the hearts of those who promoted the Law as well…..they failed miserably as I have heard modern testimony to it.

    Like

    • diane says:

      No, Marie, what they can't keep are the oral traditions…the ADDITIONAL laws that man heaped upon God's Torah. If we say that it is impossible for us then we have departed from what God Himself said. He said it is NOT too hard for us to do. We need Jesus abiding in us to do it. It is the CARNAL heart that is at enmity with God's law, not the converted and circumcised heart. That's the difference. There are people who try to make is so ridiculous that it can't be kept and then people satisfy themselves in agreeing. For instance you can't turn on a light switch. You can not put a pen in your pocket because that is carrying a burden on the Sabbath. These kinds of things are according to the oral traditions of men. Talmudic man made traditions. People either try to make it so rigid, as they did with Jesus, trying to say He could not heal people on the Sabbath- and accusing Him of breaking the commandment. He did not. For sin is the transgression of the Torah. If He had broken it then He would not have been a perfect and sinless sacrifice in our place. They accused Him of breaking the Sabbath because they picked some heads of grain and rubbed them between their palms. Again, He did not transgress the law as the accused Him of, they were trying to take it to an impossible measure. The day is to be kept holy, to be spent in time with Him. So it's not a day you are working, (it doesn't mean you can't brush your teeth or heat up a meal, or make yourself a sandwich…but you are not supposed to get into making major meal preparations, that is to be done ahead of time. It's not a day to do your job or do laundry or go shopping or out to lunch with friends. Those things can be done the other 6 days of the week. So I'm not sure that I understand your response Marie, but I did not want to be misunderstood or in any way have you think I am advocating disobedience. Far from it. It is a matter of understanding the Spirit of the law.

      Like

      • Julie says:

        Diane,

        The whole issue of not working on the Sabbath is not at all realistic or possible for Christians and Jewish persons who are Nurses, Fire service and police, ambulance crew, Surgeons and Doctors, For these type of careers involve taking care of the sick, the vulnerable and the injured in Nursing homes, Hospitals, House fires and people who are in emergency need of Medical assesment and treatment from Sickness, severe heart failure/Strokes or minor to near fatal injuries… And there are vulnerable adults with learning disabilities, mental health issues that require supervision and Children in Residential care… For each staff team it is not always reasonable or possible for the Jewish/Christian/Muslim employees to be granted their Sabbath day off each week.. Partly as it is too unfair to expect some staff members to work more than two weekends a month just so Christian/Jewish staff get to enjoy every weekend with family… And these areas of work are the most valuable to society as they are high risk areas of need…. What better place for a man/woman of God to be positioned to be used by Him in peoples lives… But Brethren-centred/Orthodox Jewish views would no doubt advise their people not to accept jobs in those careers…. Yet I am sure they would be overcome with grattitude by the non-Christian or the Christian firemen who comes to attend and rescue the family strictly celebrating the Sabbath on a Saturday until an accidental fire breaks out!

        Like

      • diane says:

        Hi Christina,

        I'm in agreement about Christmas, Easter, lent, valentines etc all being pagan. They were disgusting festivals of debachery and human sacrifice. They are an abomination to God.

        But as for Sunday over Saturday. I do not follow the traditions of men but the word of God and you will not find one Thus saith the Lord to suggest He ever changed it. Men comfort themselves with thinking they are honoring Christ by keeping it on the day He rose from the grave, but He takes no honor or pleasure in disobedience to the commandments. In fact He says that those who keep the traditions of men over the commandments of God worship in vain.

        Paul and all the apostles and all the first century Christians kept the Sabbath. This too was changed by the Catholic Church and those who keep her days and festivals follow after her and not Christ.

        Like

      • BMW says:

        yes..good

        Like

      • diane says:

        Marie,

        Are you in one of these fields Marie? I know many Sabbath keeping nurses and doctors. While it's true they can not keep every Sabbath, they do work things out on their pay so they are not earning on the Sabbath if they have to work. I'm also a caregiver, I do not work the Sabbath, but one time there was an exception and I just asked them not to pay me. Most who end up having to work one Sabbath a month or something of that nature work it out between themselves and God, but they do not work every Sabbath as they make that a stipulation of their employment. But I find most people who bring that up then want to use that as an excuse as to why they can not keep the Sabbath. Do they then keep Sunday? So, it's a matter of the heart and putting God first and not your paycheck. Firemen and police officers are the same thing. Most people who are Sabbath keepers are very up front about that when applying for a job. They know in certain fields they will have to work some Sabbath days, but then as I said how they work that out is between them and God. When a person is in sales they can rationalize well Saturdays are my biggest sales days. God then knows you are putting your paycheck before Him. People who don't want to obey will always find a reason and excuse not too, those who do will always find a way to honor God. God understands the real, true emergencies.

        Like

      • Karen says:

        Where does it say in God's Holy Spirit inspired Word that He makes exceptions for certain people groups that partake in certain fields of work….so anotherwords, He condemns the farmer for working his fields on a Sundays, yet gives grace to the nurse or fireman? Seriously?

        Jesus's disciples collected grain on the Sabbath while some onlookers judged their actions and questioned our Savior. I have watched the literal Sabbath keepers lives here in our area and they fail miserably themselves when keeping the sundown Friday to sundown Saturday Sabbath for we see them participating in public events when they should be at home or in their synagogues worshipping…..hmmmm. And yet, they have the gall to criticize and condemn the rest of us for not keeping the Sabbath perfectly (many of these types and shadows (people) call us "unsaved" for not keeping the Sabbath or attending a 501c. 3 business church on Sunday mornings and this is a shame. As born again believers in Jesus Christ, alone, for our salvation, we are called to worship Him in spirit and truth every day of the calendar week, and to "be His church" 24/7 wearing a cloak of lowliness and humility wherever we go as Jesus, His disciples and His Apostles did in the day of old. And we are to point souls to Chris, and Him alone, not the teachings and preaching of men and women. Jesus, alone. We live in the land of vain glory, we repent, O LORD.

        Like

  24. lyn says:

    Diane,

    Are you an orthodox Jew or do you just adhere to orthodox Judaism?

    Like

  25. Amy Spreeman says:

    Interesting conversation. I'm wondering if this relates to the Hebrew Roots movement? We did a show on this a few months back, and included some great articles as resources here: http://standupforthetruth.com/2013/01/hebrew-root

    Like

    • diane says:

      I'm not part of the Hebrew Roots Movement. I'm just a person who believes in the whole word of God. Sadly many mislead Christians believe that God freed the Israelites from Egyptian bondage ONLY TO PUT THEM BACK UNDER BONDAGE! Wow. You will see no where in Scripture that God has revoked His law…which HE calls THE LAW OF LIBERTY!!! Not bondage. Go figure.

      People evidently think God is a liar when He say: I do not change. Most Christians totally disagree and think He changed the covenant or did away with it or just changed His mind. One minute He calls His law holy, righteous and good and the next it's bondage. Hmmm. Not sure I'd know what to make of a god like that. I woroship the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And He says: I will not alter the thing that has gone out of My mouth. But you say differently.
      He says: I am the same yesterday, today and forever. 99% of Christianity believe otherwise. Somebody is a liar and I can assure you it is not God.

      What I advise and challenge everyone on this thread to do, is READ THEIR BIBLE for themselves. And stop letting other people tell them what is says and what it means. Start right at Genesis and read all the way through to Revelation. I find lots of "Christians" like to just hang out in the New Testament and have NO idea what the front of the Book says because somebody told them it doesn't apply anymore. Better study to show yourself approved and BE SURE, because who reads the end of the book without reading the front of the book in any other case?? No one does that except with the Bible. Not wise. You can and are vulnerable to deception and you wouldn't even know it because you don't know, what you don't know.

      Like

  26. lyn says:

    Thanks Amy, I will check this out.

    Like

  27. lyn says:

    He hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

    I recommend these readings on the imputed righteousness of Christ…
    http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/Sermons&am
    http://the-highway.com/articleJan10.html
    http://truthinheart.com/EarlyOberlinCD/CD/Bunyan/

    These are a bit lengthy, but they are well worth reading. The age-old belief that one must 'work' to be righteous before a perfect and holy God is not biblical. Obedience is commanded for God's people, yes. We should not take His grace in vain, however, we need not go to the other extreme and apply a 'works' based type of righteousness that we simply cannot fulfill. Walk in obedience, but understand that only God's Son could completely and perfectly fulfill God's perfect standards – "Think not that I am come to destroy the Lawe, or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17 {Geneva Bible, 1587}

    Like

  28. Robert says:

    The church that us buying attendees will perish as will they personally who do not ask Yeshua to come into their lives to give by grace alone eternal salvation.
    As you can see by the many at Stonehenge there's a hunger in the human heart body mind and soul for that spirit filled experience.
    You can have that incredible faith that the Son of Yehaweh gives through the Holy Spirit when you repent and ask Jesus who is called Yeshua to be your eternal Saviour. It's free He said
    I AM the way the truth and the life that no none come to the Father Yahweh but through Him Yeshua

    Like

    • Julie says:

      Lyn..

      Not sure if your post on 'Work based salvstion' is somehow directed at my post so I will just say faith by works obviously does not give us Salvation… However as there are vulnerable people in society who need people to take care of their needs as part of their profession and same for emergency services that are 24/7 Services and needs then it is inevitable that some if us will have to work on our chlsen Sabbath Saturday or Sunday… This is not the same as Faith by works as you described that is completely different issue…

      Like

  29. Amy Spreeman says:

    I just noticed on Chris Rosebrough's (Pirate Christian Radio host) Facebook, he posted this today:

    "Are the origins of Easter REALLY the worship of the goddess Ishtar? Learn the truth here http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=28507 #HebrewRoots"

    Like

    • Julie says:

      Amy, Thanks so much for the link that explains a real Christian centred focus on Christmas and Easter/Lent so insightful… Julie

      Like

  30. Christina says:

    @Diane, to correct you on a couple of your posts, Christmas is not about the birth of Christ it is a pagan Roman festival (as probably a few people might have pointed out but I dont have time to read the posts), Natalis Solis Invicti, I beleive its called assuming I spelled it rightly. It was instituted by the Catholic Church in the 4th century in order to appease nominal Christians who wanted to take part in the pagan celebrations without guilt.

    Yet there are plenty of signs in the bible that show that Jesus was not born during the winter. Such as the passage that says that shepherds were watching their flocks in the fields overnight which doesnt happen in the winter.

    And as for Sunday vs Saturday, Sunday is the day that Jesus rose again, the first day of the week so it is perfectly appropriate to honor the Sunday Sabbath. Saturday is the Old Testament dispensation which we are no longer required to follow.

    Like

  31. Sharon W. says:

    Jesus Christ is the Sabbath Rest…..Hebrews 4:1-11

    Like

  32. Marie says:

    This is interesting conversation noting the views of many people. And I must confess, when the doctor shared with me that I may have cancer, I read the Gospels of our LORD Jesus Christ before my surgery, preparing my soul for what was to come. Oh, how I love the teachings of Christ, for only through Him are we set free from the bondage and slavery of…..well…..let us call it pure, unadulterated religion. It is no wonder why the scribes, Pharisees, and Saducees of Jesus' day hated his porverbial guts…..many recognized Him as the Living God come to earth in the flesh, but did the work of antichrist anyway………times have not changed.

    Sharon W……..oh, how I love the few words of truth you pointed out.

    Yes.

    Only Jesus is our Sabbath rest….and He came to not make us a slave to the law as some are binding us to today…..whether it's the law of one extreme (paganism in the form of christmas, easter, halloween, valentine's day, fourth of july (nationalism), or any other man-made holiday, etc.) or the other extreme of the Hebrew Roots movement of making us slaves to the Old Covenant, of which God, our Father, knew we could not keep, thus sent us His Son, Jesus, to set us free from the works of the law.

    So what happens when a born again follower of Jesus Christ, who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, chooses to not celebrate any man-made or old testament law holiday (which means "holy day?"

    "But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain." Galations 4: 8-11 Author: God, the Holy Spirit through the pen of the Apostle Paul

    Also, Jesus, our Risen LORD and Savior to all who will receive Him encountered a woman at the well in John 4. What an encounter of Hope! Jesus visited with a lowly woman, looked down upon by the elitist/moralists of her day…..Listen….."The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, 'You have well said, 'I have no husband,' "for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly." The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him." "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things." Jesus said to her, " I who speak to you am He."

    Jesus is LORD of all things, including the Feasts, including the Sabbath…..and every letter, jot, and tittle leads us to Him, and Him alone. How glorious is our LORD, that when we lie in the hospital on a Saturday or Sunday (our days and months are named after pagan gods as well) that we are not condemned by our Father in heaven for:

    1. not attending a church where man-made attendance is taken
    2. for not old testament tithing to be recorded by man and scolded by man for not putting enough mammon in the coffers……we can give freely….Matthew 6.
    3. for not celebrating a feast day, christmas, halloween, my birthday, st. patrick's day…or any other day
    4. for not consulting the religious so they can boast and brag how "spiritual" they are in praying, making public appearances, or the ilk, which is in contrast to Christ, for you as you go through this difficult trials in life…..our God is not impressed with public displays of self righteousness.

    We have been given the liberty and freedom to worhsip God, in spirit and truth, every single day of the entire year….we Sabboth every day with Jesus for what He has done for us…..He came to save us from ourselves….our wretched, disgusting, evil, putrid sin…..sin.

    So while in the hospital;, I could pray;, I could sing my favorite hymns and psalms and scriptures that my limited ming could recall as I was beginning to experience intense axiety around midnight, all alone and so desperately in need of Jesus at that moment, and I could worship our God in spirit and truth, lying on my back in pain. I have not experience that king of worship in any building made with human hands in any religious system….ever. My Father was there and He took care of His child….me…..as lowly as my sinful nature is.

    And yes, all of those who have been imprisioned for their faith in our Living Savior, Jesus Christ, have been set free from religion and could easily worship God in spirit and truth from behind the prison bars/walls. What hope these men and women of great faith have shared with us today!

    And since the heart of man has not changed, what about all of those this day, who are in need of our prayers because they too, are being tortured/imprisioned for their faith and are worshiping God without all of the feasts, days, seasons, times, and years? Will our Father hold it against them for not honoring the Sabboth sixth day of the week while they are Sabbothing every day with Jesus? Will our Father hold it against us if we do not celebrate christmas or easter, because we are honoring His birth and resurrection every day as we bow before Him in humility asking Him to forgive us from our sins?

    And at the end of the day, I have had spirit filled fellowship with more people in Walmart and the grocery store, than I have had in man-made religion….and this is the truth.

    2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the LORD is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

    And God is not speaking of the masonic designed goddess Statue of Liberty, nor the pagan goddess Libertas statue on the top of our nation's captial……….

    What have we become here in America, but slaves to man.

    Like

    • Sharon W. says:

      Marie, my sister-in-Christ, and friend….yes, there have been some interesting conversations taking place…on this post and past posts.

      I may not be able to relate to your medical diagnosis, but I can relate to the swirling emotions, pain & struggles that accompany our intense trials….and, if I could, I would love to be at your bed side and sing those songs with you.

      Like

      • Marie says:

        Oh, Sharon….how I desperately am in need of a true friend and sister through our LORD Jesus Christ…..for I have been beaten and battered emotionally by the rulers and scribes in the last church I attended. Now I know why Jesus called the religious people of His day a "brood of vipers."

        The gossipping, the back biting, the slander, the lies, the control and manipulation, and the most hurt of all is this……when those around you sin against you in the church system and then turn it around and blame their sins on you…(and you have not done anything wrong), then claim to love you……..what kind of love it this?

        Like

      • Julie says:

        Marie, Thankyou for sharing about your faith and your situation and I will keep you in my prayers for your healing and for Gods covering to help you walk through this time..
        I totally agree with your understanding and heart of God on these issues of the Christian festivals and the Sabbath… Sharon too thanks for the Scripture Jesus is our Sabbath rest..Wow!! Amen!

        Like

      • Marie says:

        Dear Julie,

        As I sit here reading, tasting the saltiness of my tears, my heart is softened and I want to Praise our Father in heaven for you, Julie, and those glorious words you said….that you keep me in your prayers. What love is this that God would send strangers to minister to a hurting heart in need of forgiveness and……..truthfully….needing to forgive so that my soul can heal and move on. Prayers are always cherished.

        I love you Julie and I love you Sharon…..and I look forward to meeting you one day in the presence of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

        Glory to God in the Highest.

        Like

      • Sharon W. says:

        Marie, much love in return! I'm sorry that you have been hurt by brothers & sisters in Christ…it can feel like being cut" twice as deep".

        I usually remind myself that we are all broken people who live in a broken world…some will acknowledge that and many won't, and that we have a Savior who is well acquainted with grief and has walked that road ahead of us….for which I'm grateful.

        Like

      • Chris says:

        To Marie and my other dear brothers and sisters,

        may our God be with you and keep you in His way
        x x x

        I just found this site by googling something like
        'are there any real Christians in England?'

        well,
        thank you dear loving Father for bringing me here,
        where there are real Christians,
        with circumcised hearts,
        united with you in love and mercy
        x x x

        Marie,
        I hope your health stays well and free from cancer.

        My dear friend Janet is in what could be the final stages of blood lymphoma,
        though anything is possible with God.

        Whatever happens,
        may we always look to our loving creator,
        who always gives us what we need,
        each day

        Like

  33. jules says:

    Great replies and its good to see God's people being led into truth.

    Re Sabbath, Sabbath came from Creation and is grouped with the other 9 commandments which Christians strive to obey in their daily lives.

    Sabbath was before the fall, so is not part of the sacrificial system so has not been done away with. How can you take away one of the days The Creator made? That would leave just 6 days. The sole purpose of this day was to rest. Moreover, He did'nt just rest on this day, He Hallowed it and made it Holy. In the commandments He told mankind to REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY to KEEP it HOLY.

    Who will dare to, knowingly, tell God they are de-Hallowing His Sabbath and still say they are His followers?

    Something to pray and study about perhaps.

    Like

  34. Michelle says:

    I'm delighted to see when my fellow brothers and sisters do what God calls them to do. The world (Christian that live like the world and are called to be separate) as we know is way to comfortable to me in the lies that they live in. When I study the word….I truly saw the same things. The Lord was right on time as always (with pagan holy-days). I thank you for this and I too see the persecution here (America) any moment now. I feel a terrible disaster heading here soon in America, while the Christians just sit back and accept all of it or debate who is right and who is wrong! Also, it seems to me that so many Christians change God's word to fit their wants and still do what pagans do!!!
    I'm sadden with all the lies, I'm sadden how people trust in their pastors, deacons, church more than God's word. I'm sad that we have no true prophets, only made up ones that talk more about new age, UFO's, and satanic crap. Not all Christians are studying, and if they are…..the pride kicks in and they feel they can spit better knowledge than the next, that's not what Jesus taught. Also, how in the world are so many people following false prophets and false churches?????
    This world is about to be in for a huge awakening…..mostly Christians that debate about folly. Take religion out of context…which is to help the father-less and widow….need I say more….not a acting out of one's on selfish needs! Trying to be righteous in front of the next! I love deeply, but it truly saddens me that Christian are always in debate like the heathens…no wonder they laugh and speak against the Lord…..because the Lord truly did not work most hearts!!!!!

    Like

  35. Dennis says:

    Praise be to The Most High YAH!!!!

    Like

  36. I wonder says:

    Christianity is a man-made religion as well as all religions.
    There is no where in scripture that tells us to be christians.
    Don't you think the Father would have stated such a thing?
    The word comes from cretins, meaning a person considered to be extremely stupid, Christian.
    Look at the Constantine Creed.
    The Father's name is not God or Lord-pagan deities
    neither is his Son Name Jesus, pagan deity as well.
    The deceptions run extremely wide and deep.

    Like

  37. lyn says:

    I wonder,

    Acts 11:26 'And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.'

    Christian – from the Greek Χριστιανός
    'Christianos'

    From G5547; a Christian, that is, follower of Christ: – Christian.

    "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. " Matthew 1:16
    Ἰησοῦς
    Iēsous
    ee-ay-sooce'
    Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: – Jesus.
    Χριστός
    Christos
    khris-tos'
    From G5548; anointed, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: – Christ.

    "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." John 6:27

    πατήρ
    patēr
    pat-ayr'
    Apparently a primary word; a “father” (literally or figuratively, near or more remote)

    θεός
    theos
    theh'-os
    Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: – X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

    The holy, infallible word of God proves you wrong and totally ignorant of His truth. May He have pity on you and reveal Himself to you.

    Like

    • I wonder says:

      you must go back to the original scriptures, not greek.
      these were not greek people.
      you have to look deeper than surface definitions
      they were placed there by people who have no knowledge of the original language.
      that's all i will say
      most people think they have all the answers and are dead wrong
      The problem with folks calling themselves christians
      the Messiah came for his people not the world.

      Like

    • godsfingers says:

      How did you get those Greek characters to print? I understand the Greek, it's that English appearing stuff that baffles me>

      Like

  38. toddreeder says:

    I study the translation and transliteration of how they come up with the name Jesus. Iēsoûs is the Latin. Translated it comes out Teaching authority founded . The Latin Vulgate took the Greek and translated or transliterated it to Latin. Then it was translated or transliterated to English and the came up with Jesus. I believe it should be in Joshua in English. But people would not trust the Bible or Christians if Christians started using Joshua and tell people that the translators got it wrong. Or it was changed so we would not have the real name.

    Like

  39. toddreeder says:

    I got it wrong in my previous post about what it was in Latin. I believe Joshua would be more accurate then Jesus.

    Like

    • David says:

      The Hebrew/Aramaic would be Yeshuah. Neither Greek nor Latin have an 'sh' sound and the endings, Greek 'ous' and Latin 'us' are needed to make sense in their inflected forms. This is the usage in the Gospels and the Pauline epistles and the epistles of Peter, John Jude, and James. Hence Iesous/Iesus/Jesus has a perfectly good New Testament pedigree.

      Like

  40. Andrew says:

    This article is utter nonsense.

    Like

    • godsfingers says:

      Huh? Some churches have been allowing Wiccan services here in the states along with many other Pagan practices the last couple years. The Koran is being read in "christian" services. I even read an article a few months ago about a Catholic church getting a McDonalds in the church unabashedly calling it an attempt to get more in the pews.

      Like

  41. Moe says:

    I think it's now obvious to anybody. The Anglican Communion is no longer Christian in any way. I'd be running for Rome or Orthodoxy as fast as I could if I were Anglican…

    Like

  42. elaine dodge says:

    If you mix faeces with wine you don’t make the wine more appealing to a broader group of people, you just have liquid shit.

    Like

  43. Cheryl c says:

    Can Good and evil dwell in harmony – No

    Like

  44. John says:

    Never heard of anything so stupid in all my life, PAGAN'S do not go down this idiotic path, these people tried to destroy us, Hail Odin & the gods, keep your "White Christ" we have no need for him or his followers lies.

    Like

  45. Tom Harrison says:

    Christianity has always stolen pagan beliefs to win converts… since FOREVER. Why do you think we have all the holidays we do today? They're all pagan festivals! Christianity is entirely plagiarised from other religions – it doesn't have a single original element.

    Like

  46. Rob Klaers says:

    And history repeats..
    This isn't the first time Christianity attempted to adapt Pagan traditions in an effort to recruit…

    Like

  47. Gonna respond again Christianity was used to enslave our ancestors and they have blood on there hands in the thousands I don't except this at all neither do my Druid ancestors who died at their hands…..

    Like

  48. godsfingers says:

    hmmm, John MacArthur already has

    Like

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