Does Rick Warren want you to “come home” to the Catholic Church?

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You’ve heard about the Purpose Driven Life for Catholics, but did you ever think it would lead to a major evangelization project by the Church of Rome that targets Protestant Christians?

Catholics Come Home: God’s Extraordinary Plan for Your Life is the name of a new book that is taking Rome and the world by storm, with this incredible endorsement by Rick Warren, which signals a troubling shift toward embracing this new project:

Warren quote

Make no mistake; this Catholics Come Home movement is not just to bring “lapsed Catholics” into the system of Rome. ( see The Eucharest: the New Evangelization targets you, Christian!) It’s target is everyone, including Bible-believing Christians. The project’s founder, Tom Peterson, has opened the doors to entice Protestants and people of other faiths to Catholicism:

Catholicscomehome doors

The movement officially kicked off in 2011 with a 3.5 million prime-time television campaign aimed at drawing more people to the church of Rome. The marketing reach of these ads in the first three weeks was 250 million television viewers in over 10,000 U.S. cities and every diocese throughout the United States. With the release of the Catholics Come Home book this spring, there is a renewed push to get the word out of Rick Warren’s involvement, as this video promotion reveals:

Rick Warren’s partnership with Roma Downey in the minisieries, The Bible was troubling enough, but the millions of viewers who tuned in also were targeted in the Catholics Come Home commercial campaign when it aired earlier this year on The History Channel:

Other endorsements for the book:

Kreeft

Let me pause there and add that this last testimonial from Dr. Peter Kreeft is interesting, as he has been quoted in a 2010 book titled Natural Law by Robert Morey:

“…explicit knowledge of the incarnate Jesus is not necessary for salvation.” ~ Peter Kreeft  (page 355, Natural Law, published 2010 Xulon Press)

“We are in the midst of a New Evangelization; and I believe this book is a signal moment in its success. It is also a sign that will lead many folks back home to the family of God, which is Catholic Church,” —Dr. Scott W. Hahn, author of The Lamb’s Supper and Signs of Life (former Protestant turned Catholic “evangelist”)

“Catholics Come Home inspires each of us to share God’s love with others, in order to help change the world for the better, for eternity!” – Roma Downey, actress and co-producer of the History Channel series The Bible.

Recently Roma Downey acquired a Master of Spiritual Psychology (New Age) degree at University of Santa Monica. New Age leaders at the school include Deepak Chopra, Barry Siegel (promoted in Purpose Driven Life)], Neil Donald Walsh, and Michael Beckwith. (Source)

 

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80 Responses to Does Rick Warren want you to “come home” to the Catholic Church?

  1. D says:

    Because the children of God did not seek Him nor take their counsel from Him, but took from dry wells, our generation has been fully prepped and primed to be deceived by the harlot and brought into her fornication! How the righteous soul mourns for this generation!

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  2. Perceptive Perceptio says:

    Deceptions will abound in these last days. Scripture says that even the very elect will be deceived, so it seems wise to believe nothing anyone has to say. Until we see Jesus coming in the clouds, returning in the same way He left, we should be careful not to go with the convincing words of others.

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    • David Fritz says:

      What if he would return in the image of a brilliant Chalice and Holy Eucharist??

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    • angelajean says:

      the holy
      spirit has an agreement with Our Father God to protect us from evil, to give us the mind of
      Christ and to lead us into
      truth,especially these end times… He is the One we should rely on and encourage each other to seek Him for direction when we are facing the errors of false teaching and false teachers

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  3. daz says:

    So sad inside. Heard a minister say this week that we are fast approaching the end game where it will be very much like the beginning with Cain and Abel. That there will only be 2 different people at the end- the martyrs and the murderers. We better choose wisely now. Even so come quickly Lord Jesus.

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    • Rose Vosburgh says:

      '2 different people at the end- the martyrs and the murderers."

      Sobering thought! It certainly appears to be moving quickly in that direction. May God help us and may we be found faithful to the end.

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  4. SLIMJIM says:

    This is sad. I hope people finally wake up to what Warren is about–and it's not a fully Biblical ministry

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  5. This is so frustrating. It reminds me of apart of the Bible where it says the person goes across the world to make one convert and makes him twice the son of Hell. They failed to mention in that sweet sounding video, they killed people who tried to make the Bible in the people's language. God show they must have faith alone in Christ for salvation, not be part of the Roman Catholic churhc.

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  6. Thank God. I hope every Protestant repents and returns to the teachings of Christ and His one true Church, which is the Catholic Church. I only wish I had done it sooner; wandering in the Protestant wilderness for 17 was far too long. God bless.

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  7. Scott says:

    Ugh! It's a sad day! There certainly is no need to step away from salvation by grace through faith in Christ to a works based religion that has a history of making its own rules and – like the Pharisees of old – persecuting those who walk in the Spirit & truly love God's Word above man's. I hope Catholics will get saved & delivered from their dead religion. The truth is in Christ because He is the truth! John 14:6

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  8. Gabe says:

    If you (Protestants) believe that the Bible is the Holy Word of God, then you must believe in the authority of the Catholic Church … from which it comes. This is historical fact. To deny it, is to be without a source to confirm the Holy Book is true.

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    • D says:

      I'm glad to see your comment and get the opportunity to talk to you.

      I would like to respectfully say upfront that I disagree with your statement from its origin to conclusion; at its origin, because the scripture itself says that "all scripture is inspired by God…" (2 Tim. 3:16), and therefore does not come from the Church, but God. Secondly, "all authority on earth and in Heaven has been given to Christ" (Mt. 28:18), though His authority is (without question) exercised by the members of His Church, our faith is not in the authority of the Church, but in the source of the Church's authority, which is Christ. Without our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, there would be no Church, nor authority in the Church. And finally, with the conclusion that we have no source to confirm that the Bible is true without the Church, I disagree on the basis that it is the Holy Spirit, not the Church, who brings power to confirm the Word of God (Jesus appealed to His works to confirm that He was true; Paul preached in such a way that their faith rested on the power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit; and the Scripture says that the Kingdom of God is not in word only, but in power and demonstration).

      It is also an unfortunate fact, but the Catholic Church also strongly resisted, to the point of persecution, having the Bible translated into the common language of the land. One could say that we have the translated Bible in spite of the Catholic Church's efforts. In fact, many of the transcripts used by the translators that eventually brought the Bible to the English language came from Byzantine after they were driven out by Muslim invaders. It is a considerable point that when the Greek and Hebrew texts arrived, those who compared it to the Vulgate discovered a number of biased errors. If you are interested in or feel inclined to dispute these citations for this information, I can provide you with their sources so that you can check them out if you would like.

      I would rather encourage you to seek God through Christ by the Holy Spirit according to the truth that He has declared in the Holy Scriptures instead of seeking and relying on the Church as an end itself. The scripture says that the Church is the body of Christ, and that YOUR body is a Temple of the Holy Spirit, a dwelling place of God (1st Corinthians 6). Jesus said that He would be our shepherd and that we would know His voice (John 10), and that He would not leave us as orphans but send to us the Holy Spirit (John 14:18).

      I love the Church and seek fellowship with my brethren in the Light, but it is through the love of Christ that compels me that I love the Church, because He loves the Church, the Church is not the center of my heart nor the aim of which I seek to defend.

      Again, I'm honored to have this discussion with you. We surely live and move and have our being in Christ, and for that I praise God according to His great mercy! Amen!

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      • Rob says:

        Bam! Hit the nail on the cross, metaphorically speaking that is lol.

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      • robert says:

        The Pillar and Foundation of Truth is ….. the Church. When this was written in the scripture, it was the Catholic Church alone.

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      • Alex says:

        This is in many ways correct, and in many ways incorrect:

        The Old Testament existed before the Church, and the New Testament was written during its beginning. However, the New Testament books weren't compiled, canonized, and put together with the Old Testament books until 397 A.D. at the Council of Carthage. Before that point, there were some books being recognized by some people, but not by others, and vice versa. The Council of the Catholic Church made it clear which books were to be accepted as inspired, and which ones were not.

        As to the issue of not translating from Greek and Latin, at the time, the language of literature was Latin, and many spoken languages didn't have a written counterpart, so odds were, if you could read, you were able to read Latin. When the Church went about translating the Bible into the languages of the nations, in many instances, those in charge of doing so had to make up an alphabet for that language, because there wasn't one already in existence.

        Also, the Bible itself states that to follow scripture alone is wrong, although it is always useful for reproof, correction, and teaching, 2 Thess. 2:15 also defends traditions handed down, not all of which were written. Indeed, prayers to the saints weren't explicitly written of, yet recorded prayers to the saints date back to the second century A.D., well before any other denomination that exists today and opposes it was ever even thought of.

        As to the Vulgate, while there are some errors, it is, to the best of my knowledge at least, errors in the translation, which are present in practically all translations at some point anyhow, and due to human error. As it is, the Church uses several different ancient copies of the Bible to help avoid such errors, including the Septuagint and the Vulgate, but not limited to them.

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  9. Mr Davis says:

    D# Good comments and I would add that to eat the body of Christ is to take into your very being what He himself Is and what He has Done and remember what is real food: my food is this to do the will of Him who sent me. Who sends us is it not the Christ, who laid down an example that we should follow in His steps. And what about His blood, That sin cleansing blood, that blood that made the attonement possible, that brings life where there was only death, for the life is in the blood. Is not the communion cup a reminder that we are all joined together in Christ as one Body by the One Spirit and are we not called to even suffer and to be baptised into the baptism He Himself was baptised with which was the cross where He laid aside His own will and He died to complete the Will of the Father.

    Gabe I'm sure you have also heard and read here: any attempt to earn a right standing before God is blasphemy, to think you can buy God's favor Blasphemy, to believe that we need to add to what Christ has accomplished on the Cross of Golgatha in order to be righteous before God, Blasphemy. To think that some how through religious observances (which have nothing to do with obeying God's word: ie laying aside your selfish sinfilled will in order that you may live for the sake of others instead of for your own selfish sake) instituted by man salvation is maintained, blasphemy.

    The Catholic Church isn't about the Gospel of Jesus Christ they promote a Gospel they themselves have created to draw men after themselves and not after Christ. But I think of others who claim to follow the truth, they themselves do not heed God's word about our conduct either inside the Body of Christ or out in the world.

    If we do not heed God's word and make that the rule and let mercy and forgiveness guide us with compassion and love without dissimulation, what hope can we have? Can we put our hope and trust in man: God forbid! This was all fortold that we would exalt men and heap up teachers to tickle our ears and to heal us slightly saying peace, peace when there is not peace: Not the peace of Christ!

    For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:29-35

    If we Love Him (Christ Jesus, The Father, the Holy Spirit) then we will obey the commands of God. Appart from His Spirit at work in us, this will be heavy burden if we are sincere in our efforts and honest in our evaluation and impossible to bear. If have not the Holy Spirit which will guide and direct us into all truth then we are none of His and we will not agree with His word and we will follow anothers writtings instead.

    God says I take no delight in the death of the wicked, repent, turn from your disbelief and believe and live.

    I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:6-12

    The Bible is Good. The whole of It. John 5:46-47, 3:31-36, 5:41-44

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  10. Jason says:

    The Catholic Church is The Great Harlot Church… they're leader an Alien? 😉

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  11. Carol Allison says:

    Catholic Church is the one true church founded by Jesus Christ and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

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    • rosinavoz says:

      The Christian church was founded by Jesus Christ and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The Catholic Church is an apostate church that came into existence about the 3rd century AD and distorted true Christianity. The Church was able to do this because people were unable to read the Word of God for themselves. In fact, the Church did not want it to be translated and made available for the common people to read. Why? Because then they would find out the truth… that the Church teaches a false gospel that cannot save anyone. The Bible teaches (Romans, Galatians, Ephesians) that we are saved by faith alone, through Christ alone and not by any good works we do. Good works are the evidence that a person is truly saved…the result, not the cause. Justification before God is by Christ alone. Sanctification comes after salvation as the Holy Spirit works in us as we seek to live lives pleasing to God. The Catholic Church adds sacraments, holy days, prayer to saints, devotion to Mary and so many things a person must do, do, do…to add to grace in order to earn salvation. I was Catholic a long time. So glad finally be set free of all the burdens that false system put on me. I will not 'go home' to the Catholic Church'….no way! I am at home in Christ and He is all I need.

      From http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.ht

      The Roman Catholic Church claims to have started in Matthew 16:18 when Christ supposedly appointed Peter as the first Pope. However, the honest and objective student of the Scriptures and history soon discovers that the foundation of the Roman church is none other than the pagan mystery religion of ancient Babylon.

      While enduring the early persecutions of the Roman government (65-300 A.D.), most of professing Christianity went through a gradual departure from New Testament doctrine concerning church government, worship and practice. Local churches ceased to be autonomous by giving way to the control of "bishops" ruling over hierarchies. The simple form of worship from the heart was replaced with the rituals and splendor of paganism. Ministers became "priests," and pagans became "Christians" by simply being sprinkled with water. This tolerance of an unregenerate membership only made things worse. SPRINKLED PAGANISM is about the best definition for Roman Catholicism.

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      • catholic dude says:

        Calling the Catholic Church apostate is laughable as it is untrue. The Catholic Church was started by Christ. Your protestant church was started by a self appointed pastor, who claims an authority he doesn't have. You would not know what books comprise the bible if it were not for the Catholic Church, yet you think you know it better than the Church does. This is spiritual pride. Saying the Catholic Church started in the 3rd or 4th century is just historically incorrect. I would urge you to avoid anticatholic websites because their agenda is to attack the Church, and truth means little. Jesus Christ started the Catholic Church in 33 AD. That is a fact and no amount of revisionist history is going to change that.

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      • Rose Arago says:

        Based on a Protestant book of course

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    • rosinavoz says:

      Sorry, I left off the end of that quote regarding the founding of the Catholic Church. Here is the rest of it:

      "The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire. The first actual Pope in Rome was probably Leo I (440-461 A.D.), although some claim that Gregory I was the first (590-604 A.D.). This ungodly system eventually ushered in the darkest period of history known to man, properly known as the "Dark Ages" (500-1500 A.D.). Through popes, bishops, and priests, Satan ruled Europe, and Biblical Christianity became illegal.

      Throughout all of this, however, there remained individual groups of true Christians, such as the Waldensens and the Anabaptists who would not conform to the Roman system."

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      • catholic dude says:

        Constantine was never the head of the Catholic Church. You are simply incorrect, and you are giving credence to a bad source. It is not an authentic historical source. The list of Popes goes back to Peter. He was the first Pope. Constantine was never a Pope and did not establish the Catholic Church. Leo I was not the first Pope either, he was actually the 45th Pope. Its always funny when non-Catholics not only tell us poor Catholics what we believe, but how old our Church is. Then they get it horribly wrong.

        "Let no man do anything connected to the Church without the Bishop…Wherever the Bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to Smyrnaens 8 (107 A.D.) And you still wanna say Constantine founded the Catholic Church in 313 A.D.??? Seriously??? Do your homework, and stop treating anti-Catholic drivel as truth. You are being led astray.

        And yes, there is biblical basis for the papacy (Matthew 16:13-20). If you want to argue that Jesus was not referring to Peter as the Rock in that passage, you do so on your own authority (or lack thereof). When it comes to scriptural interpretation, I will trust an authentic authority, the Catholic Church, who receives Her authority from Christ. I will NOT trust self appointed pastors who have no authority. Peter led the early Church, the Catholic Church

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      • Amy Spreeman says:

        Catholic Dude, this is not a forum for Catholic apologetics. Sorry, but I had to delete most of your comments defending this system. I will let this one stand.

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      • Scott says:

        dude, sir, I have already answered most of this. The term "catholic" in 107 meant "universal" though it has come to be the common name used by the apostate Roman system that greedily ran in the error of Balaam after Constantine's conquest. There is one universal church & I am part of it! It's not the modern day catholic system, though! So, I don't use the terms "gay" for the same reason I don't use "catholic" to say I'm happy & part of the one true church (though I am) because I'm not, to use the biblical terms, sodomite or apostate & I want to avoid confusion since the meanings of these terms has changed to reference such… .
        The only way a pope speaks with the authority of Christ is to proclaim what Christ proclaims. I appreciate their stand against abortion, but this last one is straying farther from sound doctrine than his recent predecessors regarding important family issues. Like I said, there's a veneer of Christianity, but it's to lead people away from Christ to themselves – like the Kingdom Hall & other false systems do… . I love my catholic friends & acquaintances & hope y'all will come to truly know Christ!

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      • catholic dude says:

        You are sorely mistaken if you think Catholics don't "know Christ". I have a more intimate relationship with Christ than you can possibly imagine. How uncharitable! You can say what you want about Ignatius' quote to try and get around the fact that the early Church was Catholic, but you are only fooling yourself. Ignatius held to Catholic beliefs (Ex: The Eucharist and authority of the Bishop of Rome). And Ignatius was a disciple of the Apostle John. Scott, do you know better than Ignatius??? When one reads the writings of the Early Church Fathers (Ignatius, Polycarp, Iranaeus, Justin Martyr, etc…), its pretty hard to argue that they were anything but Catholic. Justin Martyr describes the Catholic Mass wonderfully in his Apology in 155 A.D. You're right about there being One Church, and it is the Catholic Church. Calling it apostate shows nothing but a profound sense of spiritual immaturity and a lack of knowledge of both scripture and history. You sir are not infallible, yet you seem to be so sure of yourself when it comes to the Catholic Church. Yet you have proven from your statements that you do not know the Catholic Church nearly as well as you have convinced yourself that you do.

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      • Alex says:

        Catholiki means universal. Catholic is directly derived from it, however, they're two separate terms. Catholiki is Greek, Catholic is simply derived from Greek.

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  12. Scott says:

    So, you trust a system whose dishonesty, abuse, murder & deception holds no equal on earth? May God open your eyes to the truth! He will if you truly desire holiness & truth. Study your Greek. The words used for "rock" were different. Peter is just a little stone. The rock is the foundational truth that Jesus is the Christ… . Peter knows that… . If you look just a little further in that chapter, Jesus rebukes satan. Who is He speaking to? A fallible man. There is but one High Priest & mediator between God & men: Jesus Christ the Lord. If you'll pursue Him you'll see Him better & see men to be but men… . May God bless your earnest & honest search for truth!

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    • catholic dude says:

      He has opened my eyes to the truth, and that is why I am Catholic. Your understanding of Catholicism, scripture, and history is deeply flawed. I don't refer to Catholicism as "a system", but for what she truly is, His Bride. BTW, Jesus spoke Aramaic and he also refers to Peter as the rock in John 1:42. There are honest protestant scholars who admit the truth on Peter being the rock. I would urge you to put aside your biases and follow Christ through the Church He founded, and quit referring to it as " a system". "There are not 100 people in the world who hate the Catholic Church, but millions who hate what they mistakenly believe it to be". Fulton Sheen.

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      • Amy Spreeman says:

        No, not from bias. Many of us not only understand it from personal experience, but we’ve come out of it after understanding many of the teachings are opposite of what the Bible actually says.

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      • catholic dude says:

        Wrong, opposite of your private fallible interpretation of what scripture says. By what authority do you proclaim the Catholic Church wrong?

        (I’ve deleted the rest of your post and will comment)

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      • Amy Spreeman says:

        By Christ’s authority and His alone.
        It’s all about an authority issue, and the Catholic teaching states that the Scripture is NOT the authority alone.
        The reason I won’t allow your Catholic apologetics posts to continue is because you believe in something different from Biblical Christianity, and there really is no use debating you here. There are plenty of other websites out there where you can do that, but not here.

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      • catholic dude says:

        Sorry, but you do not speak with the authority of Christ, you speak with the authority of Amy Spreeman. The Catholic Church speaks with the authority of Christ. She is the ultimate interpreter of the scriptures, not me or you. You would not have the scriptures, let alone know which books comprise it, if not for the Catholic Church. Sola scriptura is false. It is a man made teaching that has resulted in nothing but division, contradicting the prayer of Christ that "they all be one". Scripture is not the sole authority because nowhere in scripture is it stated that scripture is the sole authority. That doctrine is not biblical and not historical. Christ never wrote anything down, He built a Church and gave Her the authority to bind and loose. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1Tim 3:15).

        Amy, its funny that rather than responding to my points, you dismiss them and declare the Catholic Church as " something different from biblical Christianity". You call your page standupfortruth , yet persist in your error. Catholic Christianity is not "different from biblical Christianty". Catholicism is biblical Christianity par excellence.

        Amy, I don't doubt your sincerity. You are a sister in Christ. But the things you think you know about the Catholic Church are simply wrong. May God give you the grace to one day see that. I don't count on you posting this, but feel free to email me. Rwsiii79@aol.com.

        Peace of Christ,

        Catholic dude.

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      • rosinavoz says:

        You would do well to spend a little time reading about Roman Catholicism at carm.org. Every one of your arguments is refuted there…every one. I was once extremely loyal to the Catholic Church myself, so I understand your strong point of view quite well. I was very well indoctrinated into it from Catholic grade school and on up through college. I was once just like you….dead wrong, dead in my sins, and headed for damnation because I was trusting in the 'infallible' pope and a corrupt church system rather than in the Savior… listening to what the Church/Pope taught but never reading or understanding God's Word. Here is a quote from CARM that refutes your statements about that Catholic Church's authority being above the Holy Scriptures:

        "The Bible tells us to obey the Word of God, to not go beyond the written Word (1 Cor. 4:6).Unfortunately, the problem with an elevated status of Roman Catholic church tradition is that it results in various justifications of it's non-biblical teachings such as prayer to Mary, purgatory, indulgences, penance, works of righteousness, etc. Because it has deviated from trusting God's Word alone, it has ventured into unscriptural areas. Nevertheless, did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible? No, it did not.

        First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really around as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were very risky in the Roman Empire due to the persecution. Catholicism, as an organization with a central figure located in Rome, did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.

        Second, the Christian Church recognized what was Scripture. It did not establish it. This is a very important point. The Christian Church recognizes what God has inspired and pronounces that recognition. In other words, it discovers what is already authentic. Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me…" (John 10:27). The church hears the voice of Christ; that is, it recognizes what is inspired and it follows the word. It does not add to it as the Roman Catholic Church has done. Therefore, it is not following the voice of Christ.

        Third, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament which is the Scripture to which Christ and the apostles appealed. If the Roman Catholic Church wants to state that it gave us the Bible, then how can they rightfully claim to have given us the Old Testament which is part of the Bible? It didn't, so it cannot make that claim. The fact is that the followers of God, the true followers of God, recognize what is and is not inspired.

        Fourth, when the apostles wrote the New Testament documents they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. There wasn't any real issue of whether or not they were authentic. Their writings did not need to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the Canon of Scripture by a later group of men in the so-called Roman Catholic Church. To make such a claim is, in effect, to usurp the natural power and authority of God himself that worked through the Apostles."

        Fifth, the Scripture says, "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God," (2 Pet. 1:20-21). The Bible tells us that the Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the very nature of the inspired documents is that they carry power and authenticity in themselves. They are not given the power or the authenticity of ecclesiastical declaration.

        Conclusion: The Christian church, as an earthly organization, recognized the Word of God (John 10:27). It didn't give us the Word of God. Also, it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament. The authenticity of the New Testament documents rests in the inspiration of God through the apostles, not the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament. The Jews did. How can the RCC claim it gave us the Bible when it did not give us the Old Testament? Finally, when the Catholic Church claims that it is the source of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in effect, placing itself above the word of God by claiming that through it's authority we received the word of God."

        The Sufficiency of Scriptures and Sola Scriptura taught in the Bible: http://carm.org/bible-alone-sufficient-spiritual-http://carm.org/are-scriptures-sufficient http://carm.org/does-1-timothy-3-15-refute-sola-shttp://carm.org/how-did-early-church-practice-sol

        If you read from sources other than the Catholic propaganda machine, you might have some of your set-in-concrete beliefs challenged and upended. At the very least, you may get a very different perspective about Protestants and why they believe as they do.

        Former Die-Hard Catholic who saw the Light,
        Rose

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      • catholic dude says:

        I am quite familiar with warm and their errors. Matt Slick has no credibility when it comes to Catholicism. Rosinavoz, if carm is your source on Catholicism, I truly feel sorry for you. Your interpretation of 1 Cor 4:6, or should I say Matt Slicks interpretation, is dead wrong. He is hardly an authority.

        And yes, The Catholic Church ewas around in the first century. That is a fact. The early Church fathers wrre Catholics. You would know that if you read real history rather than the history according to carm. As for leaving the Catholic Church, you didn't see the light…you ran away from it.

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      • catholic dude says:

        Lyn, I have been born again by God, and you are in no position to tell me I haven't. Further, I find it funny you claim to know the state of my soul, calling me "a sinner in a dead state". Only God knows the state of our eternal souls, Lyn, and you are not Him. You say "the Catholic Church carries no authority" yet claim me to be "a sinner in a dead state". Seems like you give yourself quite a bit of authority, doesn't it?

        I agree with you, The Bible is God's word, and it is without error. However, The word of God is not contained only to what was written. The bible itself says so. Christ left an authoritative Church with authority. That is biblical. Bible alone, sola scriptura, was never the sole authority. In Acts 15, when Peter rose up and made an authoritative decision on behalf of the Church, he didn't go by sola scriptura. He made the decision by virtue of authority Christ passed on to him, giving him the keys.

        Saying our Church is "made up of lies and wickedness" is just uncharitable and untrue. Please stop breaking God's commandment of bearing false witness against your neighbors. I am one of His sheep, and I hear His voice. You are in no position to tell me I don't. And you are in no position to tell me where my loyalties are, for they are to Christ. And Christ does know me, and I know Him. I walk with Him everyday. It is the scales from your eyes that need removing. It is the hardness of your heart that needs removing, and I pray the Holy Spirit will do this. Your hatred for Catholicism is not Christ-like, and we are all called to imitate Him. You have a lot to learn, and I pray for you all.

        Like

    • Alex says:

      You're using the Attic Greek definitions of the words Petros and Petras, not the Koine Greek, and guess what? The Bible was written in Koine. In Koine Greek, the word for a small rock, or pebble, is Lithos, not Petros. The reason why the second time the rock is referred to, the word is Petras is because that's grammatically correct in Koine Greek, when referring to it as a subject, not as a direct object, as it is in the first case. Also, JEsus and Peter spoke Aramaic, and in Aramaic, the word for rock is Cephas, which Peter is referred to as being several times in Acts. Properly put in Aramaic, it's Cephas and Cephas.

      I got the Greek info from a Lutheran scholar who is well-learned in both Attic and Koine greek, as he's majoring in Greek Classical Studies, and it is his third year. I also double checked with his professors, and they concurred. Please do your research next time.

      Like

  13. Scott says:

    It's clear to anyone who studies scripture that the Catholic system is wrong! That is why they murdered multitudes to do the work of their father satan – to keep people in darkness by not permitting study of the scriptures! You sound like the other cults – mormonism & watchtower's group who say you're in darkness without their misinterpretation & perversion of scripture. The Bible makes it clear that the Holy Spirit Himself will teach me! And He does! He has shown me how orthodoxy & catholicism are religious institutions based on pride & that desire to keep people in bondage with a new "law" like the false teachers in Galatians 4. Infant baptism is the new circumcision. Jesus Christ is the "one" mediator between God & men & the only high priest. He has one representative on earth – the Comforter, Holy Spirit – & whomever He indwells. God Himself has taught me that catholicism is a wicked system in satan's grasp. The son of the bondwoman always persecutes the son of the free – & catholicism would love to have that power again as it once did! You're right that she is in the Bible. It's in Revelation 17. The great whore full of the blood of martyrs of Christ on 7 mountains. That's the Vatican in Rome! It's too late to lure me into your dark & deceptive system of bondage to a man's system set in the place of God's = modern day Pharisees. By what authority do we speak the truth? By the authority of the Truth, Jesus Christ, Who we know personally & are one with. There is one Church & that is those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells. I'm sure there are many deceived by & in bondage to man-made religious systems. My heaviest prayer burden of late has been for such. However, those with the nobility of the Bereans will study the scriptures (if permitted) & God will deliver them! You can find many who have at bereanbeacon.org! Also, if you would like to hear about the history of catholicism from a more objective source you're accustomed to, check out the "Know Your Enemy" series on Youtube by the fuel project. God will open your eyes to truth if you have a heart for it. Understanding the scriptures is not primarily intellectual. It is about the heart. God isn't going to cast His pearls before swine. We ask, seek & knock… . The proud never see truth, but always proclaim to do so. We're all in darkness apart from the true light Jesus Christ the LORD. The only way to God is holiness & Christ is our only way to holiness – because the dead works of men's religious systems are an affront to the Holy God. It is clearly visible in how Christ interacted with the right religious line of His day who came straight down from Moses. His harshest condemnations were for them. Why? Because they nullified God's Word with their own man-made doctrines & prevented people from recognizing the truth when He stood before them! If your religion is true, it will point people to Christ instead of placing itself in His stead (which is antichrist). Check those links out. It will help you if you sincerely & earnestly desire truth, Christ, holiness… . May God bless your sincere & diligent search for Him by making Himself known to you! He is sooooo much more than what you have been told!

    Like

    • rosinavoz says:

      Such a thoughtful comment, Scott. Thank you for expressing the truth so well!

      Like

      • catholic dude says:

        Rosinavoz, calling what Scott said "the truth" doesn't make it so. Calling Catholicism "a wicked system in Satan's grasp" is hardly true. Tell that to all the Catholics who build hospitals, orphanages, and schools in the 3rd world. Tell that to the Catholic missions who bring people to Christ who never knew Him. Yes, the Catholic Church is focused on Christ (You might know that if you gave credence to something besides carm.org and silly Chick Tracts) The very Bible you read (and distort) is a Catholic book. You would not know which 27 books belonged in the New Testament if not for the Early Church Councils which settled the Canon. The Councils were Councils of the Catholic Church. That is a historical fact, and it is irrefutable. Carm.org can give you all the revisionist history they want, but it doesn't change reality.

        The things said by Scott and yourself are not only uncharitable and false, they are not the mark of a Christian. You are bearing false witness against your neighbors, and God is watching. May our Lord forgive your ignorance for I believe you truly are loving and Christian people, but you are seriously misguided when it comes to the Catholic Church. I pray that through God's grace, you will one day see how foolish the things you've said here truly are.

        Like

      • rosinavoz says:

        And I pray, sir, that your eyes will one day be opened to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes,Catholics, and also Mormons, and other false religious groups do many good things to help people in their efforts to earn their salvation. But salvation is not of works. It is of Christ alone…all of His work and none of us, since our works are filthy rags and worthless in God's sight. We can only do works worthy of God AFTER we are saved as the Holy Spirit sanctifies us to live lives that are pleasing to Him. The way of salvation…that is the main problem with the Catholic Church whether you can accept that or not. It teaches salvation by faith in Christ PLUS good works and practice of the sacraments. I was a Catholic. I know the system well. It is a system which breeds pride in the hearts of its followers because they think they can be good enough to go to heaven. But the bible says none are righteous, not one. We are all wretched sinners…in fact it says we are dead in our sins and have no hope at all of being saved unless God does a miraculous work in our hearts….raising us from spiritual death to new life in Him. If we can have any part in earning our own salvation, then why did Jesus have to come and die? It simply makes no sense for Him to suffer through all He endured if our works can add anything to what He did. That is a blasphemous though! He came to die because we were and are helpless to do anything worthy to gain salvation. The Catholic Church teaches some good things, but sadly, on the main thing. the way of salvation, it teach a false gospel that is powerless to save anyone.

        Your mind is closed and blinded by pride. I know because have been just where you now. But God changed me. I pray for a miracle in your life. I would never, ever go back to the Catholic Church. Back then, I knew OF Christ….I was very religious, pious, sincere…practicing all the sacraments faithfully, doing all the good works I could find to do…even attending Mass daily… yet I was hopelessly lost and dead in my sins. Despite the outward appearances of my life, I was not growing closer to God or growing in holiness no matter how hard I tried ….and I tried very hard. Since coming to faith in Christ alone through faith alone, everything has changed and I am a new creature in Christ and am bound for heaven based upon what Christ did for me…not on anything I have done for Him. God has given me a ministry of helping others and I do it with great freedom and joy knowing I can do it all for His glory and not to earn anything from Him. It is a joy to be a born again Christian. I praise God everyday for melting my hardened heart and setting me free from a false religious system.

        The truth is often offensive and people who share it, hold to it, and defend it, will be called unloving, even unchristian. Yet, no matter what people say or how offended they feel, I must, in love, share the true gospel and then pray for God to soften hearts to be able to receive it. You trust in the Church founded by men to give you the truth. But we have our example in the scriptures for how to discern the truth. The Bereans didn't even trust Paul but they searched the scriptures intently to find out if the things he was telling them were really true. That is the example we are given in all matters pertaining to eternal life. You are resting all your hope and trust in a man-made religion instead of in God's Holy Infallible Word to us.

        Not sure any more discussion with you will be fruitful at this point, but I do pray for you.
        Rose

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      • catholic dude says:

        Rose, you are right. The truth is often offensive. However, the stuff you were cutting and pasting from carm.org was anything but truth. You say my mind "is closed and blinded by pride", then turn around and say you, Rose, must, "share the true gospel", assuming that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't have "the true gospel". Sounds to me like you're the one pumped full of pride. You are not infallible, Rose. That means you could be wrong. Have enough humility to admit that possibility.

        Calling the Catholic Church a man-made religion is just getting old. It is Son of Man made. It is you who holds to man-made novelties such as sola scriptura and sola fide, both of which are unbiblical. You claim to be a former Catholic, and I'm sorry to hear you have left the faith which comes from the Apostles.

        I certainly welcome your prayers, and I will pray for you as well. Peace in Christ, Catholic Dude.

        Like

      • rosinavoz says:

        Dude,
        No, I am not infallible, but the Word of God is. Yes, I was once full of pride… before I trusted in Christ completely….back in my Catholic days when I felt my good works had a part to play in my salvation. Now I have nothing to boast about…nothing at all…except of what Christ, in His great mercy, has done for me. He did it all! Paid the complete price to set me free from my sin. I don't need edits from the Pope, sacraments, rosaries and prayers to Mary and the 'saint's. I don't need the Eucharist ..a wafer and wine magically changing into the body and blood of Christ so He is sacrificed over and over again daily to cleanse me of my sins. On the cross, He said, "It is finished". The debt…my sin debt…was cancelled once and for all time…at the cross!!. No need to have Christ sacrificed again and again…over and over. Communion is a memorial of Christ's ONE TIME sacrifice for sin. (Do this in REMEMBERANCE of me.) We are under the New Covenant now. We no longer need priests to make sacrifices for us (BTW, Jesus said to call no man "Father"). True believers are priest unto God themselves. "Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood." (1Peter 2:9) Jesus offered Himself for us; now we offer ourselves to Him. We do not need an intermediary. The curtain in the Holy of Holies was torn in two from top to bottom. We can now approach God without any hindrances at all because of what Christ has done. The Catholic Church puts loads of burdens/hindrances in the way. The God I worshipped as a Catholic was unreachable. There was always more to do, do, do to make myself acceptable so I could approach Him. Jesus broke down all the barriers. The Catholic Church has erected all the barriers of the Old Covenant back in place again. There is no freedom in Christ. There is only work, work, and more works to be right with God. All they have done is just tack on believing in Jesus…but the rest is pretty much just like the Old Testament….rules to follows, things to do, and no true assurance of salvation…because how do you ever know you have done enough? That is why the Catholic Church had to come up with the teaching of purgatory…to give people some assurance…. a make believe place were 'pretty good' people who haven't committed any mortal sins can go to work off the venial sins they didn’t get paid for…and then, after some eons of time suffering,….THEN they can get to heaven. Just plain ridiculous and that is what you get when you abandon God's Word as the standard of truth. You get silly things men dream up to appease the masses. We do hold to some traditions as Christians, yes…biblical ones. Traditions do not stand on their own, are not above Scripture…ever…. but is always subject to the Word of God. Some tradition were instituted by God, but many are man-made. Men are sinners. God is Holy. I will trust His Holy Word and put traditions of men to the test of scripture first to see if they is true and helpful. If not, I will discard them.

        What is the gospel? Would you share it please?

        Like

      • rosinavoz says:

        I am not seeing see what I posted a few hours ago in reply to your above response to me, so I hope it did not get lost. But, nevertheless, let me add this:

        You are implying that I am 'pumped full of pride' because I am sharing what I know to be the true gospel. There IS only one true gospel…only one way by which sinners can be saved. Either you have the true way or you don't. This discussion is very important. It is a matter of life and death…eternal life and death. That is why I implore you to get outside the Catholic box and do your own research. What are you afraid of? Are you so sure the Catholic Church is right you are willing to risk your eternal soul? Carm is a very good source which, if you really took the time to read, it gives proofs of the heresies the Church teaches right out the Catholic catechism itself…word for word. But, if you don't like that source, take a look at pro-gospel.org, a ministry to Catholics by Mike Gendron, himself former Catholic. Or you can do some reading at bereanbeacon.org, the website of Richard Bennett, a former priest. Here is the link to his testimony and why he left the Catholic Church after serving in the priesthood for 22 years: http://www.bereanbeacon.org/richard-bennett-testi…. He has also compiled a book, The Truth Set Us Free, which contains the testimonies of 24 nuns… some of whom served in the convent for more than 30 years…. who got saved when they heard the true gospel and came out of the Catholic system, often suffering great hardship and rejection by their families because of their conversion to Christ alone through faith alone.

        Bottom-line, Dude, there IS only one truth. Better make sure your Church is giving you the true way to be saved. It is too important if you are wrong. Jesus said, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I say unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:22-23 Chilling words! I pray you never hear them. Get out of your comfort zone, step back away from what you have always been taught by a man-made religious system, humble yourself to accept the possibility that you could be wrong and then investigate the matter as a good berean would.

        Rose

        Like

      • Zola says:

        I found your reply to be very heartfelt and sincere. I was raised Baptist. I was made to memorize numerous scripture thru the GA's (Girls Auxiliary) At the time I hated having to memorize all of it but it has served me well thru my adult life.
        I have several friends that are devout Catholics and that in itself gives me great pause. They are and verbally call themselves Devout Catholics. What does the word devout mean? It means "devoted to." Not devoted to Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Issaic and Jacob. Not to God in the Flesh, Jesus Savior of all mankind. They are Devoted to the Church and all her Pomp and Circumstance. They are devoted to the "good feeling" that all the pomp and circumstance creates. "Surely god is pleased with me for all my devout and Lowly offerings.
        I cannot reconcile in my spirit or knowledge of the Word in anyway the teachings of the Catholic Church re: priest forgiving ur sins, the pope hearing from God and telling the people, praying to Mary, purgatory and praying for those that had their time here to receive salvation and Chose not to, praying and exalting Saints (does the Word not call all the Saved Saints), Rosery beads and saying the incantation over and over them as if this catches the ear of God.
        I love these friends and I cannot say they are lost or saved. Their works look good but I do not really know if they are for brownie points or a loving heart. Only God sees the heart of man. The murderer or theif or adulterer or perverted we can see the outcome of a wicked heart BUT the one that calls himself a Christian, his heart can only be seen by God himself. It is much more difficult to tell if this mans works are dead or from the spirit of God.
        Mr Warren agreeing with the Catholic Church to "bring the Catholics home" and including the Protestant in that so "at least " we can get some of them saved is very sad. Does he not see that it is a way for the Catholic "Church" to recruit more under their control. It is like G Bush calling Islam a Great Religion. Religion is always Man Made so in that respect Islam is a great religion. I don't think that is what his underlying thought was. I think it was his way of trying to quieten those that wanted to kill all Muslims after 911. What it did was to bring down Bush. After he made that remark he lost his judgement. He was deceived by Putin, he made silly stupid remarks and I could barely watch him anymore. He also paved the way for Obama to be elected whom I think to be a Muslim at heart and as unAmerican as possible.
        I make these statements for this reason. Watch and see if Dr Warren does not come to some demise also.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Sir, that is what I am doing!  I'd love to be able to warn them all! Telling the truth to these precious souls is the most charitable thing we can do!  The problem is that they're NOT leading people to Christ, but to a perverted religious system that has distorted the truth of the gospel to bring people into catholicism.   There is a vast difference! 
            
        I know many people who would disagree greatly that catholics gave us the canon!  It was interaction with an old friend who is orthodox that got me studying these issues.  They say they're the true church & that catholicism broke off from them!  That was in 1066 (if I remember correctly) – long after the declaration of what's considered the canon.  There was more to it than that, too!  (They split over whether or not the Holy Spirit proceeds from Christ.)  I certainly do not consider them to be the true church, either, because of false doctrine, etc.  However, they have a better argument for it because their bishop (Constantinople) was over Jerusalem – which is where the original church was.  So, catholics use their Rock/Peter/Rome philosophy to credential themselves.  There's no way you can say it was the "catholics" who gave the canon!  The catholic system did begin to persecute true believers once it fell away apostate in the way of Cain! It is pretty clear from history that what is now catholicism came from the line of those in the true church, but way too far! I have one question for you: Which was the true religion of God when Christ ministered on earth? Was it the doctrine of the Pharisees & the judgments of the Sanhedrin descended from the line of Moses, Aaron & the Levitical priesthood? Or was it the doctrine of Christ – One born of God, full of the Holy Spirit & in opposition to them?

        Sir, it would benefit me none to change your mind because, if I could change it, somebody else could, too. What you need is a personal encounter with the Almighty where He shines His light into your heart, mind & life. May He grant it in mercy & grace!

        Like

      • catholic dude says:

        Scott, you say, "they're NOT leading people to Christ, but to a perverted religious system that has distorted the truth of the gospel to bring people into Catholicism". This is uncharitable and factually incorrect. You should be ashamed of this statement. Who says the gospel as you see it is "the true gospel"? You? Do you have some special authority to make the final call regarding whose biblical interpretations are correct and whose aren't? Christians debate scripture all the time. That is one reason why sola scriptura is false. It has resulted in nothing but division…thousands of denominations all going by the Bible alone, all claiming the Holy Spirit is guiding them. It someone disagrees with their interpretation, then they don't have the Holy Spirit. Jesus did not teach sola scriptura, the Apostles did not teach sola scriptura, the Early Church Fathers did not teach sola scriptura. You won't find any defense of sola scriptura until Luther. Yet you adhere to that and say you are following the "true gospel".

        Btw, your date is wrong on the Great Schism, it was 1054, not 1066 (no biggie).

        You may have people who dispute that the Catholic Church, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit of course, gave us the Canon. But it's not a matter of opinion. Those who reject it are simply mistaken. And the issues that divide Catholic/Eastern Orthodox are few. EO have maintained the fullness of the Catholic faith (Valid priesthood, seven sacraments, etc…) It is those communities born out of the Reformation, and the offshoots of those offshoots who have departed from historical Christianity.

        You say I "need is a personal encounter with the Almighty where He shines His light into your heart, mind & life". Who are you to say I haven't had one? Because I'm Catholic I somehow don't know Christ? You sir, are hardly in a position to know that.

        Like

      • rosinavoz says:

        Got to correct you here, Dude:" Do you have some special authority to make the final call regarding whose biblical interpretations are correct and whose aren't? Christians debate scripture all the time. That is one reason why sola scriptura is false. It has resulted in nothing but division…thousands of denominations all going by the Bible alone, all claiming the Holy Spirit is guiding them."

        There are many different denominations in Protestantism and varying beliefs concerning the NON-ESSENTIALS of the faith. However, when it comes to the essential doctrines such as the means of salvation, true biblical Christian churches are in complete agreement. They agree much more than they ever disagree and the areas of disagreement are in debatable issues upon which we are free to disagree because we are free in Christ. Some churches believe in the continuation of gifts of the spirit; some do not. Some teach or hold to Calvinism, some do not. Some churches cling to King James Bible only, others do not. Some have embraced more contemporary worship styles while others are more conservative and sing only the old hymns. But…on the crucial matters of faith…no matter how many different denominations, if they claim to be Christian churches, they are in total agreement. There are some denominations calling themselves Christian which teach Oneness theology…that God does not exist in three distinct persons. That is heresy and those churches are outside of Orthodox Christianity and should not be considered Christian at all. There some claiming to be Orthodox which teach an unbiblical gospel message of health and wealth. They are fallen away from true Christianity and from the bible.

        Essentials of the faith as taught in the Bible would be the Monotheism, the Trinity, Jesus Christ is both God and Man, the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, salvation by faith alone in Christ by grace alone, and that Christ is the only way of salvation.

        Denominational differences does not prove that the Sola Scriptura is false. It is merely a demonstration of the freedom we have in Christ to worship where we choose as long as the church we attend is following the bible's teaching in the essential doctrines. I once worshipped in a charismatic church. Then at Christian Missionary Alliance Church. Now I am in a Baptist church. Essentials of the faith?…the same for all. Why I moved? I had the freedom in Christ to do so. But I could go back to each one of those churches (and sometimes do) and still worship and have fellowship with the believers there because they share the same core bible beliefs as I do which have not changed.

        Like

  14. catholic dude says:

    It is only clear to you Scott because you have been blinded by your own pride. You use the "your church has sinners" argument and it is fallacious. Saying the Catholic Church forbid reading of scripture is a flat out lie. You are simply delusional if you think God is the one who taught " Catholicism is wicked". At best it was your own ego telling you that and at worst, the evil one himself. Either way, you are wrong.

    I find funny how you all think you know Catholicism, then proceed to call it "gospel of works". The ignorance here is obvious. May our Lord forgive you for you clearly do not know what you are doing.

    Like

    • Scott says:

      Part I:
      Well, sir, pride truly is the most sinister of sins in that the one who has it doesn't recognize it is in him/her.  I try to walk humbly with my God & ask Him to reveal & remove such wickedness from me.  I don't pass judgment on catholicism from my own ego or pride.  I simply repeat what my Lord Jesus Christ has already stated.  He has revealed that catholicism is in the spirit & error of the religious leaders of His day.  It is not because there are "sinners in the church".  That's true all over.  One of the twelve who walked with Jesus was a host for satan!  No sir.  This is different, very different.  Jesus warned His to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.  Many honest hearts did not find freedom very easily.  The Apostle Paul is the best example.  However, freedom abounds where truth is sound. 
           As to catholicism forbidding the reading of the Bible, I know they don't now, but they did for centuries!  That's why it was called the Dark Ages.  They would love to now, but their iron grasp over nations & kings is much weaker in this generation. They murdered Tyndale for translating the scriptures into English.  His work is the foundation for the KJV Bible I now carry. Theirs was a work of the devil to keep people from the truth that they might keep them in bondage. That is what surprises me that so many would still blindly follow that evil system of deception, bondage & profiteering when we now have the truth & it is so far from their many false doctrines! Truly it must be because they haven't truly studied the Word of God!!! If it was up to catholicism, the Bible would still be forbidden to non-catholic clergy, would be in Latin only & they would be killing us! They had to concede & adapt to societal changes with England's break from it, Luther's stand against false doctrine, the invention of the printing press, etc.
         
           The catholic system is full of the blood of martyrs – & perhaps they still aren't finished? 
           At any rate, its false doctrine (error from the scriptures) & its antichrist position (meaning it puts itself in the stead of Christ) clearly define catholicism to be apostate.  I hope you aren't blaspheming the Holy Ghost of God in attributing His revelations to being a work of the devil.  I hope that the Lord Jesus Christ will forgive your ignorance in this regard as I know God will show you the same truths if you will study His Word & genuinely ask Him to reveal truth to you.  (Like I said earlier, if you have a heart for it, He will.)  You will find the Author explaining the scriptures to you!  

      In my last job, I was instructed face to face by my catholic boss (the business owner) to deceive customers.  He assured me that he wasn't asking me to do anything wrong.  "Venial" sins of lying & stealing just a little bit aren't that bad, huh?  I assume that was his thinking – being raised in catholic schools & all.  He's a friendly & likable guy, but is behaving wrongly because he is believing wrongly.  Jesus said in Luke 16:10 that our faithfulness or lack thereof in the little things is how we are in big things, too!  I had to leave that job!  Now, I know there are corrupt people in various denominations (the devil makes sure to try to infiltrate everywhere), but catholicism is itself corrupt at its core.  Many of its weightiest practices are from false religions it assimilated into itself in its apostasy to draw pagans into itself. The leaders thought they could do so because they thought their thoughts were the thoughts of God, but they fell into the snare of vanity because they clearly didn't even know the Lord Jesus Christ! Now, it is a pagan amalgamation far removed from sound doctrine with a polished veneer of what appears to be Christianity.

      Like

    • Scott says:

      Part II (of II): (Like my Roman numerals? 🙂 Well, I couldn't get on here for a day or two – so more came to mind, thus the II parts!):
        I would like to exhort you to study God's Word with your heart open & honest to receive from Him.  He will speak directly to you!  &! He will show you the same truth He shows all who seek Him so!  Also, check out the links I shared in depth & detail!  Also, "The Indestructible Book" video would help you historically.  After reading God's Word cover to cover with an honest heart & continual prayer for truth directly from Him, then I would like to hear from you!  Also, let me know what you learned from the links!  God is good & kind! He wants us to know truth!  He will richly bless your diligent & honest search for Him!  If you're content with what you have & are pleased to stay there, we'll probably never meet because I'm going to spend eternity with Christ as part of His Bride because I have been born of the Spirit when He washed my sins away with His precious Blood!  Yes, I've got a knowing where I'm going because I know Him & He knows me!  I certainly don't deserve it!  He gave me life eternal as a free gift & I am eternally grateful (literally)!!!!!!!   There's no ego here!  I'm a nothing & a nobody that deserved hell, but got invited to be part of the family of God!  I have nothing good that I have not received from Him!  So, I brag on Him!  I love Him!  He first loved me & I can't fathom why He would, but I'm glad He did & does & will forevermore!  Hallelujah!!!!!  Whew!  I can see why He says the saints will shout aloud for joy (in Psalm 132)!  Yeah, fyi, that also makes me a saint & a part of the royal priesthood!  I can boldly go directly to Him for help (as Hebrew believers were informed in Hebrews 4:14-16, thus making it clear that they need no earthly priest)! 

      This is a secret & I'm not sure if I should tell you, but nobody can do enough sacraments to earn grace or favor from God.  Our righteousness is filthy rags to Him.  Salvation is a gift given by God to undeserving sinners who will admit they're sinners & receive the gift!  I was about 10 when God showed me there was something between Him & me.  It was sin!  I knew I had lied to mom & the Holy Ghost dealt with my heart about it!  To make a short story shorter, I asked Him to forgive me (me talking directly to God) & He gladly did so!  He changed me on the inside & has been working on me ever since!  He led me to church & into His Word.  I read it through the first time before I graduated high school & when I read the Word, He is able to meet me where I am & teach me (new & afresh) from the Word.  Religion tried to trap me like it has you.  It was miserable!  I'm glad that He delivered me from that!  It comforted me to know that when He saved me, He knew every sin I had committed & ever would commit & yet He still saved me!!!  Unfathomable love!!!  It makes me want to know & serve Him more & better!!!  I trust He will help you through what I have shared & that of my fellowservants & heirs of Christ on this page!  Those things that bother you & keep coming back to mind are likely the things God is using to reach you.  Ask Him to show you…Himself.  I hope to see you in the Kingdom!!!  Thank you for reading & sharing with us where you are!  God is on your trail! He's loving you through us! May He richly bless your honest & diligent search for truth! 🙂

      Like

      • catholic dude says:

        I did read this all Scott, and I appreciate you taking the time to post it. There is some truth in some of what you have said, but also some things you said that are simply false. I won't address it all but these two really stuck out….

        You said, "At any rate, its false doctrine (error from the scriptures) & its antichrist position (meaning it puts itself in the stead of Christ) clearly define catholicism to be apostate" Scott, if you knew anything about what the Catholic Church truly believes (and that is questionable given the comments you've made) you would know that the Catholic Church does not "put itself ahead of Chirst". Where do you get that nonsense? You certainly aren't getting it from any document from the Magesterium. Our Catechism states the Church "is the servant of the scriptures". When you say these types of things, it becomes very apparent that you don't know what you are talking about.

        The other thing was your comment, "If you're content with what you have & are pleased to stay there, we'll probably never meet ". Scott, are you trying to imply that if I don't leave the Catholic Church, I will never go to heaven? Please tell me you don't really think that? The fact is I have everything I will ever need, CHRIST HIMSELF. You say you try to be humble, this was hardly proof of that. I pray everyday, I read His word everyday, I walk with Him everyday. How dare you imply that I do not know Him.

        I will pray for you and I hope you will pray for me. Peace in Christ, Catholic dude.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Don't forget to check out the links! The founder of bereanbeacon.org was a devout catholic priest that studied the Bible. Honestly, I have very little desire to learn about catholicism, but I do enjoy church history. I have seen enough to recognize what it is. It's amazing how the same Holy Spirit shows different people the same thing! Yes, people do often have differences of opinion in studying the scriptures, but what the Spirit teaches is not different doctrines. There are things I don't speak with the authority of the Holy Ghost about because He hasn't revealed them. I only have my opinion. So, knowing I'll be accountable to God for every word, I prefer to refrain from speaking on those matters. Some preach their opinion on some topic that deviates from sound doctrine & cause divisions that way. I have asked God to show me if my upbringing was wrong to show me truth & His way & doctrine. I wish the catholic church had stayed true to sound doctrine. I didn't have to study it much to know it's false because I had already been studying the Bible with the Author. Furthermore, the exact doctrinal differences He showed me regarding orthodoxy & catholicism were the same ones He had shown those delivered from catholicism! It was, as God often does, confirmation of truth. The Spirit bore witness.
        I believe, personally, that some likely are believers in Christ that are caught up in false religious systems. I am encouraged that He will deliver such from the veil, bondage & false doctrine into His marvellous light! How can one believe that one is saved by grace through faith – salvation being a free gift of God (Eph. 2:8-10) & somehow believe grace is earned through sacraments. If it's earned, it's not a gift. Note, too, that the works come AFTER salvation. I could go into a lot of catholic error in doctrine, but that probably won't help you. You have to want truth. If you want truth, God will reveal it (like I said, if you have a heart for it. Matthew 7:7,8). John 8:31, 32 – [words of Jesus] "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
        My orthodox friend said the same thing about me being sure of myself, but that is a misstatement. I'm not sure of myself, but I know His voice & I cannot deny or forbear to declare what He has spoken to me & commanded me to share! He loves you too much! I probably won't be commenting on here much more. There's no point at this point. You have plenty to consider when you prayerfully reread these statements & check out the links. May God bless your diligent search for truth & freedom in Christ!

        Like

      • rosinavoz says:

        "The fact is I have everything I will ever need, CHRIST HIMSELF. You say you try to be humble, this was hardly proof of that. I pray everyday, I read His word everyday, I walk with Him everyday. How dare you imply that I do not know Him."

        How do you believe then that a person is saved? What is the gospel message as you understand it? That is the crux of the problem. You can be very sincere, very pious, religious, doing and saying lots of wonderful things and yet still die in your sins and go to hell for eternity. What do you believe saves you? It is Christ alone or is it Christ PLUS the Church, its sacraments and prayers to Mary? If it is anything added to the work of Christ, it is a false gospel and you are being deceived. Please be sure of your salvation! It is too important to be wrong! That is why we are on here contending with you. It is not out of pride or the desire to make you feel bad or to attack you. The true gospel message offends because it reveals our helplessness before a Holy God. You cannot save yourself and the Catholic Church can't save you either. Only through Christ…through faith alone by grace alone. Please stop taking offense and investigate these things for yourself. I was a very strong Catholic for many years. Can a person be a Catholic and be truly saved? I think so if they are trusting in Christ alone. But, usually after a time, that person will leave the Church because there are just too many wrong teachings that don't line up with the Word. But, that is why I ask what you believe about how to be saved. I want to be sure you ARE saved because I care about you. Being sincere will not save us. We can be sincerely wrong.

        Like

      • Alex says:

        Christ gave us the Church, so it's not a question of one or the other. The sacraments are all biblical, and indeed, if you ever want to question that, you can ask a relatively knowledgeable Catholic and find out. The mass is all biblical as well, a majority of it is direct quoting from scripture. We do not worship Mary or the saints, we worship none but God. However, we honor them, especially Mary, because we imitate Christ in all things, including honoring his mother and Father.

        We don't follow Sola Scriptura (2 Thess. 2:15).
        We don't follow Sola Fide (numerous Bible verses which I've posted elsewhere on here).
        We don't follow Sola Gratias (Romans 6:1-4, supporting works and grace together, thus not alone).
        We don't follow Solus Christus in the way understood by Protestants. In other words, we pray for each other, and recognize that saints, since they are not dead, but alive in Christ and with Him in Heaven, can pray for us as well.

        We DO follow Sola verbatim Deus (The word of God alone).
        We DO follow Soli Deo Gloria (Glory to God alone) with the understanding that gloria in this sense is referring to worship.

        Go figure.

        Like

      • rosinavoz says:

        2 Thess: 2:15 does not teach against Sola Scriptura. "Therefore, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or OUR epistle." The traditions referred to here are those established by the Apostles..'by word or our epistle'…this refers to what the Apostles taught not to all the traditions later brought into existence by the Roman Catholic Church. We are not to go beyond what is in the Scriptures.Tradition must agree with and support the text. The Bereans are to be our example when it comes to traditions and teachings of men. They did not just blindly accept the Apostles teachings and traditions. They searched the Scriptures to find out if the things they taught were true. Scripture, not tradition, is the standard of truth we must always go back to.

        You refer to 2Thess and completely ignore 2 Tim 3:16-17: "All scripture is give by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." THOROUGHLY FURNISHED! No need of anything else. And 2 Tim 2:15-"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Did it say study traditions to be approved…to rightly divide truth from error? No, it did not. Your low view of Scripture causes you to read some texts but ignore others because you value your traditions above God's Holy inspired Word.

        You cite Romans 6: 1-4 as supporting the false teaching of Christ plus works for salvation and ignore the chapters 3, 4 and 5 where salvation by grace alone is clearly taught. Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." You could also go to Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Romans 6 is talking about the proof that one's salvation is for real. Once a person is saved, he has died to his old sin nature and need not obey it any longer, but through the Holy Spirit, he can live a life pleasing to God. A person can't continue in habitual sin and claim to be saved. That is what is being taught in Romans 6. Works always follow true salvation, but are never the means of obtaining it. Those verses do not teach against Sola Gratias. Not at all.

        I was Catholic. I did worship Mary because I prayed to her to intercede for me to Jesus. I even bowed before her statue, lit candles to her. The Bible teaches there is no mediator between God and man except Christ Jesus. We don't need to pray to Mary or saints or anyone else to get through to God. We can go directly to Jesus. That is the kind of error you get into when you put traditions above Scripture.

        I don't have time today to address the rest of you points. But I know full well what the Catholic Church teaches. I got saved and came out of all of that and have freedom in Christ rather than being bound by a works-righteousness system that never gave me any peace. A Catholic can never be sure they are bound for heaven because how do you know you have ever done enough to add to what Jesus did to earn your salvation?

        How to be saved from the damnation to come… A very important question. Is what Jesus did in dying on the cross enough? Or do you need to add to it? If you could be good enough, why did Jesus have to die? He came precisely because we are cannot save ourselves. If good works could save us, He could have saved Himself a lot of pain and agony. But there was no other way…we were and are helpless and incapable of doing anything that is remotely pleasing to God in our unsaved condition. He offers the free gift of salvation to all who will humble themselves and simply trust in His finished work.

        By holding to traditions that are unbiblical, you are missing the true means of justification before God and trusting in a religious system that is powerless to save you.

        Like

  15. catholic dude says:

    I'll remember you all when I'm praying my rosary. May Jesus be with you all, I know He's with me. 🙂

    Like

    • Alex says:

      Where's the biblical command to follow the Bible alone?
      Oh, wait, 2 Thess. 2:15 is specifically against that. WEIRD.

      Also, the rosary is composed almost entirely of direct quotes from Scripture. Did you know that? It was first used so that people who couldn't read or didn't have a Bible handy (because, shockingly, printing presses hadn't been invented yet and it took quite a while to copy books), could meditate on scriptures more easily. The number of Hail Mary's said is the same as the number of Psalms, because when people did contemplate Scripture, it was generally done by praying the Psalms, since that's one of the main purposes of them. The names of each decade of the Rosary are based on extremely significant aspects of Jesus' life, and there are Scripture verses which are generally said before the beginning of each decade. But, oh wait, I'm just an ignorant, prideful Catholic. Of course you already knew that…

      Like

      • Amy Spreeman says:

        No one called you ignorant or prideful, Alex. In fact to some degree, we all are those things. I would stipulate that is is not a site for Catholic apologetics. We DO ascribe to the Solas. Our authority is Scripture alone, not Scripture + what the Pope says.

        Like

      • Scott says:

        Hi Alex,  glad to make your acquaintance!  I'm glad you have been reading & responding on here!  Truths & links that we shared will help you!  Thank you for proving my point about the term catholic.  To clarify, it is true (the best I understand), that the NT was written in Koine Greek.  I don't recall stating that lithos was used to reference Peter.  My point is that the Lord made it a point to use different terms for "rock" to compare & contrast so we know that He's not stating that Peter is the foundation.  Christ is the foundation.  "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" – Ephesians 2:20;  "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." – I Corinthians 3:11.  The Bible clarifies itself… .  Romans 10:9, 10.  Except one confess that Jesus is Christ (like Peter did), one cannot be saved (in the Church). 
             I wish we could enjoy the true, pure, unadulterated traditions of the early church that weren't recorded.  However, the apostasy of catholicism is defined in large part by its addition of multitudes of pagan traditions & elevating them above God's things (like the Pharisees.)  So, when it comes to catholicism, II Thessalonians 2:15 isn't the proper reference, but II Corinthians 6:15-17 & II Thessalonians 3:6 (instructing us to separate because these are not the traditions of the true Church.) Peter is very important & his role is not to be minimized, but Christ is the foundation… .
        Alex, thank you for taking part in this discussion! Check out the links I have referenced in other posts! There is help there! Also, I would encourage you to (& find it somewhat amusing that you already did) get Bible lessons from your Lutheran friends & others outside the catholic bubble! It's not about the glory of man – not Peter, not you, not me, not any – but Christ. Continue in His Word & be free (John 8:32). John 3:7 – "Ye must be born again."

        Like

      • catholic dude says:

        Careful, Alex. If you start spreading Catholic truth, they'll stop allowing your posts. Several of mine were never put up. I wonder why.

        Like

      • Amy Spreeman says:

        Could be because you were doing the Catholic apologetics thing I asked you politely not to do…

        Like

    • Bobby says:

      C D….The work Jesus accomplished on the cross enabled all to be brought near to God, (saved). Do we agree on that? So lets say for the sake of argument, Jesus died in 33 a.d. And you and I were alive at the time and heard Peter preach in the temple on the day of Pentecost. The next day a Roman soldier was having a bad day and decided to take it out on both of us, and killed us. When we stand before God, what do we have to offer to God that will make us acceptable to Him?

      Like

    • Heather Z. says:

      The rosary comes from paganism (Rome via India), not Jesus Christ or the Bible. Just because something works, like memorizing Scriptures, that doesn't' mean you can attach them to pagan practices, like saying repetitive prayers using pagan beads. Illiterate people should not be taken advantage of, the Catholic church should have set up schools to remedy illiteracy, rather than make the masses dependent on their lies. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, isn't that right Popey Francis? Salvation comes by hearing the word of God, and is acquired by faith in Jesus' one and only sacrifice on the corss, through his grace (the power of God toward us, to do what the truth demands).

      Like

    • PDL says:

      You ask "where is praying the rosary in the Bible?", but I ask "where is going to church on Wednesday night in the Bible." It is true that praying the rosary is not an explicit command from the Bible, but it originated when Mary appeared to St. Dominic in A.D. 1214 and showed him how to pray it. But since you don't believe in saints or apparitions, you being a "Bible-believing Christian" would simply dismiss this event as nonsense.

      Also, the word pope is derived from the Latin word "papa", which is the affectionate word for father which didn't come into common use until years after Peter's time, so yes, it isn't in the Bible either.

      Catholics do not "worship" Mary as you would like for us to; we only have reverence for her, which is totally different. Reverence is respect for and acknowledgement of Mary's holiness and devotion to God.

      Ultimately, if it wasn't for the Catholic Church there wouldn't be any Protestant's, because if there hadn't been any structure within the Church in the early years, Christians would have either been at each other's throats or dead at the hands of the Romans. Who do you bet (sorry, we can't mention gambling on a Protestant forum, I really mean guess) was the structure that kept Christianity together? While they might not have been called Catholic at that time, it most certainly was the Catholic priests, bishops, and the pope.

      No matter how much you all hate us, remember that if you look far enough down your own family tree and are also of European descent, you WILL find Catholic ancestors.

      Before you go spewing lies about the Catholic Church, read up on us.

      Like

    • godsfingers says:

      It's amazing the similarities between catholicism and Islam. DO you know that that have their "rosary" also, justify killing for the sake of god, have their worshiped head of the church. erhaps that's why the pope could comfortably have the koran read in the Vatican garden, ultimately you're all on the same side. And Rick Warren and his tentacles are harvesting the blind here. What a cozy gathering on the Ten Hills.

      Like

  16. Alex says:

    Funny, because you're deluded by ignorance. You don't even know the actual proper name of the Church you're against.

    Like

  17. Mitch says:

    Rev 18:3
    For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
    Rev 18:4
    And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    Like

  18. PDL says:

    Oh, how I wish that these poor Protestants would open up their ears instead of hardening their hearts to the One, Holy, Catholic Church who wants no more than to lead them to their Father in Heaven!

    "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him?"
    "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."
    ~ James 2:14,18

    Also, in the Book of Matthew, the Aramaic word for rock is kepha, so in essence Jesus would've said, "You are Kepha, and upon this kepha I will build my church," meaning that Peter would be the foundation for leadership within the Church.

    I have personally visited Catholicscomehome.org, and I found it to be a very informative and helpful website, and it has strengthened my CATHOLIC faith. Peace be with you all, and may you soon find your way to the truth.

    Like

    • rosinavoz says:

      From Carm.org:

      The Aramaic Kepha:…. "the Roman Catholic Church says that the rock cannot refer to Jesus "but only Peter–as is so much more apparent in Aramaic in which the same word (Kipha) is used for 'Peter' and 'rock.'" The problem is that the text is not in Aramaic–but Greek. Since we do not have the Aramaic text, it is not proper to refer to it as proof of the Roman Catholic position. We have to ask ourselves why the Roman Catholic Church would resort to using something that we don't have: the Aramaic text. Is it because their argument is not supported by the Greek, and so they must infer something from a text we don't possess?"

      Please go to carm.org and read the entire article where it also discusses the difference between the use of the words 'petros' and 'petras' in Matt 16:18.

      The summary at Carm: "The truth is that the only foundation is Jesus…. We are to look to no one else as the foundation, the source, or the hope on which the church is built. The Church is built upon Jesus–not Peter.

      "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (1 Cor. 3:11).

      Like

      • PDL says:

        I'm sorry, I don't think I clarified, Jesus SPOKE Aramaic, so kepha is what he would've said to Simon in Caesarea Philippi, where the chapter took place. But the Book of Matthew was written in Greek, which is where "petros" and "petras" come in. The word "petras" was a feminine word, so it would make absolute sense to change it slightly to "petros" so that it would fit Simon, a man. Would you not be embarrased if you were a man with a woman's name? It would be exactly like being called Carla instead of Carl, or Samantha instead of Samuel.

        Catholics don't at all believe that the pope is on the same level as Jesus. He is a human just like the rest of us, perfectly capable of screwing up. Jesus is at the top of our Church hierarchy, with the pope, hanging a little ways down. The only difference between you and me in regards to that is that your pastor is under Jesus instead of the pope.

        Have you ever heard of the president pro tempore? He is a member of the Senate who fills in for the Vice President when he isn't in Washington to lead the Senate. That is exactly what the pope is. He is the fill-in for Jesus until He returns. The pope is here to keep things running smoothly and make sure people are stayin on track. His job is to lead us to Heaven, not to take us away from it. The second that Jesus comes back is the second that we won't need a pope. But until then, the big man at the Vatican is leading us here on earth.

        Like

    • Manny P. says:

      If you really want to know what you profess true Christianity is, do yourself a favor……if you do this with an open heart, and ask God to open your eyes you will be astonished, please read this:
      http://carm.org/roman-catholicism

      Like

  19. PDL says:

    I am no longer commenting on this website, so please don't say anything to me if you want a response

    Like

  20. Col c says:

    My sister bought me the Bible mini-series by Roma Downey and others, and the 30 minutes that I watched, had projectile blood (unnecessary violence), and it completely rewrote what happened in Sodom. It had the angels begging to get into Lot's home, instead of Lot begging the angels to come home with him, so they wouldn't be raped by the men of the city. It showed nothing of Lot offering his virgin daughters, so the men of the city would be appeased somehow. Hello, this mini series was a flat out lie, and an evil misrepresentation of the gospel. Finding out that Roma Downey is New Age doesn't surprise me in the least. Social gospel is idolatry, and it is satan's deception to lead new, and immature Christians away from the true gospel, and true repentance. Please read the Bible, know what is true, so you won't be misled.

    Like

  21. Elmarie says:

    Hey sis Amy, Thanks for the heads up over at For The Love of His Truth !! I changed all the URL’S to come here in the article 🙂 Hugs
    El

    Liked by 1 person

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