An interesting Baha’i description

I’ve been doing a little research on the Baha’i religion, another Eastern-based belief system rapidly growing around the world. I thought I’d share this screen capture I took of how the largest Baha’i organization describes itself:

Screen shot 2013-06-07 at 11.47.59 AM

I find this to be rather interesting as we are seeing these words reshape and re-define mainline Evangelicalism. What do you think?

And by the way, if you know of anyone who is a born-again Christian who has come out of the Baha’i religion, we’d love to do an interview! E-mail me at comments@standupforthetruth.com.

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29 Responses to An interesting Baha’i description

  1. At some point when two completely different religions (Christianity and BaHai) use the same terms such as "Spiritual Formation", eventually they will merge and be the same one world religion!

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  2. D says:

    I cannot commend you enough for having the foresight to address this emerging religion.

    Western Christians have positioned themselves in such a place as to be very vulnerable to a religion that could seduce adherants with a form of "spirituality", "wisdom", and "social justice". Having done missions abroad in the East and spoken quite a bit with Baha'i trained in the equivalent of their seminaries, I would consider the Baha'i to be an emerging religion that will be used to take the world into a one-world religion.

    Very much integrated into their religion is the idea of "peace" (though, not as Christ gives peace) and social development. Which is interesting when you consider how the world will (and is) crying for "peace! peace!"

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  3. Jenny says:

    As a young Christian, I was raised by relatives in the Bahai faith because of a sick mom. It is one of the most decieving religions around. I always knew that when the antichrist comes on the scene they will find him as their enlightened one. I invited my aunt and uncle to church one Resurection Day, and my uncle passed around a brochure about Bahaullua being the messiah returned and that we had missed him like the Jews in His first coming. I didn't find out until a year later. Other times my sister was laughed at and kicked out on the street by my aunt who she warned about the idea of Hell and damnation, it just simply doesn't exist in their book. Christians to them are intolerable and blind to the truth. It is really sad. We have tried to reach them many times but they just don't care about the bible or Jesus, who to them is just another prophet.

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    • D says:

      You wrote, " It is one of the most deceiving religions around." I completely agree! I don't know what it is, but there is something in this religion that is an extremely deceptive spirit.

      I'm thankful you were saved out of it and encourage you to continue to try and warn them, while the Lord may still be found!

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  4. Jenny says:

    Thanks for your comment. I wish it was easier to show them truth, but they feel they found it. I recently sent some info to my uncle and a recently converted aunt on the facts about the cult and haven't heard anything yet. I lost a Baha'i friend trying to share Jesus through a book, she never talked to me again. I can only pray for them. I have never met anyone who has come out of it yet. I've only heard of Christians converting to Baha'is. My thought is they really never knew Jesus or the bible and therefore bought the feel good deceiving lie. Jesus said many will come in His name deceiving many.

    God bless!

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    • D says:

      You are very right!

      It seems so difficult because they have so cleverly blended the major religions (what they seem to call the "true" religions) together.

      Something that I found to be a door to entering into further discussion with them was the topic of "sin and death" and what is God's answer to "sin and death" (something we believe and are convicted as Christians is Christ and Christ alone). It seemed that their religion had very little "direct" answer.

      I don't know if there are "sects" within the Baha'i religion or not, but the man whom I have been talking to is originally from Iran, but fled from there and grew up in India and attended one of their top Baha'i schools.

      It seems he was very keen on the point that they "accept all the true religions" (like Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) because they believe they are all parts of a series of revelations God has given to the world. So he, at least, wasn't comfortable coming out and saying the Bible was simply wrong on any of its prophetic or soteriology (teaching on Salvation), but there are many teachings of Christ that are core-elements of the Christian faith that run contrary to their doctrines it seems.

      Again, I will pray for you as you're talking to your family about this and pray the Lord will give the unction of the Holy Spirit to pierce and convict their hearts.

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  5. Jenny says:

    Thank you! You made a good point on the topic of sin. They do not have answers without the blood of Christ. When they would have their Bahai meetings, many of them were Iranian. Probably because their founder was from there.

    Blessings!

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  6. Paul says:

    Hello Friends
    As a long standing member of the Bahai Faith, and a student of the Bible, I find some of these comments quite uninformed.
    Bahai's accept Jesus. The teachings of the Bahai Faith do not choose from other religions. There is only one religion. I understand that it takes a while to wrap your head around this concept. We've been indoctrinated from childhood into an 'us and them' paradigm. There has only ever been one religion. People have created the divisions, but God has always tried to unite us.
    If you read the Bible you will find that this is not something new. As Jesus was to the Jews of His time, so was Noah to the people of his time, so was Moses to the people of his time, so Baha'u'llah is to the people of the world at this time. ('As it was in the days of Noah…'). I would take issue with any suggestion that any of Jesus 'core-elements' run counter to any of the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. I'm sure a properly informed reading of the text will dispel any such notion.
    I welcome your comments.
    'The Earth is but One Country and Mankind it's Citizens'

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    • D says:

      I'm glad to hear your comments; many of the Baha'i believers that I have spoken with have mentioned the things that you have spoken of to me during our conversations.

      One thing that we do agree on is that there is only one true religions; I believe that the name of Jesus alone is the name by which men may be saved and through which fellowship and reconciliation with the Father is made available to mankind.

      But, I believe that there are also many false teachers who have brought the doctrines of demons forewarned of in 1 Timothy 4:1 and following, just as Jesus Himself also forewarned that there would be many coming claiming to be Him (Luke 21:8). Jesus very much excluded the possibility of further or continuing revelations to be given to men regarding salvation.

      In my conversations with Baha'i believers I have found quite a number of things central to the teachings of Jesus Christ that are not followed in the Baha'i faith; those regarding Hell, which is a central tenant of Jesus' teaching regarding "eternity", and His revelation of Matthew 24 which details the manner and events of the end of the age when He will return, which is a central teaching regarding the return of Jesus and the hope Christians have of His return.

      Thanks again for the conversation.

      Sorry it took me so long to reply– I have been in the process of moving from abroad back to the US.

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      • Paul says:

        Dear D#
        I read your reply with interest. Yes there were and are many false teachers. St Paul, St Barnabas and St Peter all ended up accusing each other of being false teachers. In Acts 13:6 we are told about some one who called himself the Son of Jesus! There are documented cases of followers of St Paul abandoning him (See 2 Tim 4:9 compared to Col 4:14).
        As for what is central to Jesus teachings, I have to remind you of the denial of Jews at the time of Jesus. Indeed if it had not been for the intervention of the Holy Spirit St Paul would have remained an ardent Pharisee persecuting the early believers, who still considered themselves Jews. They did not adopt the term Christian until some time later in Antioch, after Paul's conversion.
        Infact there is no contradiction between Baha'u'llahs teachings on Hell, or eternity or the details of Matt 24 on the manner and events of his return.
        Baha'u'llah is the return of Jesus, expected by both Christians and Muslims. He fulfills the literal meaning of many prophecies in Christan, Jewish and Muslim traditions. However ultimately it's not an intellectual answer, though intellect can guide you there. We are living a Day of judgment, and I invite you to investigate further. Read the Acts of the Apostles carefully. Confirmation of Baha'u'llahs mission can be found there, as in many other books of the Bible. This is not something to be taken lightly. My prayers go out to you, that your eyes may be illumined, and your soul enlightened.

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      • Rose Vosburgh says:

        Paul stated: "there were and are many false teachers. St Paul, St Barnabas and St Peter all ended up accusing each other of being false teachers. "

        You have mishandled the Word of God…it says no such thing.

        2 Peter 3:15-17: "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his espistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before,beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."

        Sure doesn't sound like Peter disapproved of Paul at all. On the contrary, he is strongly affirming what Paul taught. Perhaps you are thinking of the confrontation Paul had with Peter at Antioch, where Paul rebuked Peter for withdrawing from the Gentile believers when the Jewish believers were present The issue was justification by faith alone without works..without adhering to Jewish laws.Barnabas got carried away with it also. But both of them accepted Paul's correction. This is clearly evident since Peter in his two epistles preaches the exact same gospel as Paul does…salvation by grace, through faith in Christ alone and not of works. Peter graciously accepted the correction of Paul and esteemed him as a brother.

        Paul and Barnabas has a disagreement about (John) Mark's qualification to preach. Barnabas and Paul split up then going out in different directions to preach the gospel…Barnabas taking Mark with him and Paul taking Silas. But, though they disagreed about Mark's readiness, they were united in the message their preached. In fact, later, in 2 Timothy 4:11, Paul writes: "Take Mark and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry."

        As to Elymas in Act 13:6…that man may have called himself the son of Jesus, but he was a false prophet (just as the text says)..a sorcerer who tried to keep the deputy from listening to Barnabas and Paul preach the gospel. He was never a Christian in the first place so how could he abandon Paul…he was never with him.

        At to Demas…yikes…you really need to actually READ the text…because it clearly says in 2 Tim 4: 10 that Demas did not only forsake Paul when Paul was in prison…he forsook the faith, Verse 10: For Demas hath forsaken me, HAVING LOVED THIS PRESENT WORLD. He did not want to end up in prison like Paul…he loved his life and the world more than the gospel. That he forsook Paul is not reflection on Paul or proof Paul is a false teacher. It is a reflection on Demas only.

        I don't understand your point about the Jews denying Jesus. It was predicted in the Old Testament that they would, except for a few and that the Gentiles would be brought in.

        The Jesus of Islam is not the Jesus of the Bible. If you really read the Bible in its entirely, rather than just picking and choosing verses to quote here and there, you would know that. Jesus of the Bible is God, Second Person of the Trinity who died, arose and sits at the right hand of the Father and is coming again to judge the world. Jesus of Islam was a mere prophet.

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      • Paul says:

        Dear Rose
        Thank you for you thoughtful reply. I think you did well to choose verses from the second letter of Peter and the second letter of Timothy, as both these letters are strong testimonies to the truth of the Bahai Faith and often used as such.
        I agree with you and I will not pick and choose verses, but rather indicate the importance of the guidance in these two letters concerning the time of the end and the importance of avoiding pointless philosophical discussions.
        St Paul in Acts promotes and defends the beliefs of the early community in the face of Jewish opposition, because he knew their scriptures, and because Jesus fulfilled their scriptures thought the Jews themselves did not understand them. They believed they understood them, but they were blinded by their arrogance and pre-concieved notions – notions they had been taught in their schools and seminary’s.
        St Stephen surveyed their situation most clearly in chapter 7 of the book of Acts. He was finally stoned as he raised his eyes and beheld the Glory of God. You may be interested to know that Baha’u’llah is an original Semitic term which means ‘Glory of God’. The Jews of Jesus’ time did not speak English. As I’m sure you know, they spoke a version of a Semitic language, probably Aramaic.
        I encourage you will all humility to read St Stephen’s speech, then also reach 2 Tim 3, and 2 Peter 3:3. My prayers go out to you.

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      • Paul says:

        My response to Rose V
        Dear Rose
        Thank you for you thoughtful reply. I think you did well to choose verses from the second letter of Peter and the second letter of Timothy, as both these letters are strong testimonies to the truth of the Bahai Faith and often used as such.
        I agree with you and I will not pick and choose verses, but rather indicate the importance of the guidance in these two letters concerning the time of the end and the importance of avoiding pointless philosophical discussions.
        St Paul in Acts promotes and defends the beliefs of the early community in the face of Jewish opposition, because he knew their scriptures, and because Jesus fulfilled their scriptures thought the Jews themselves did not understand them. They believed they understood them, but they were blinded by their arrogance and pre-concieved notions – notions they had been taught in their schools and seminary’s.
        St Stephen surveyed their situation most clearly in chapter 7 of the book of Acts. He was finally stoned as he raised his eyes and beheld the Glory of God. You may be interested to know that Baha’u’llah is an original Semitic term which means ‘Glory of God’. The Jews of Jesus’ time did not speak English. As I’m sure you know, they spoke a version of a Semitic language, probably Aramaic.
        I encourage you will all humility to read St Stephen’s speech, then also reach 2 Tim 3, and 2 Peter 3:3. My prayers go out to you.

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      • Rose Vosburgh says:

        Paul stated: 'you did well to choose verses from the second letter of Peter and the second letter of Timothy, as both these letters are strong testimonies to the truth of the Bahai Faith'

        On the contrary, I see nothing at all in these verses that are a 'strong testimony to the truth of Bahai'….just the opposite. And your reference to Stephen in Acts 7 adds nothing to your argument. Stephen looked to heaven and "saw the 'Glory of God' and Jesus standing on the right hand of God". The 'Glory of God' is NOT, as you would intrepret it, Baha’u’llah, It refers to God the Father because the text states that Jesus is standing at His right hand. There are probably a dozen or more scripture references to Jesus standing at the right hand of God (the Father). Here are just a couple: Mark 16:19, Romans 8:34, Col 3:1, Heb 12:2, Heb 10:12, 1 Peter 3:22. 'Glory of God' is referring to the glory God the Father, the First Person of the Blessed Trinity. Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity is always protrayed at His right hand in Scripure. No Baha’u’llah….no way!

        And good grief..of course the Jews did not speak English. Just because Baha’u’llah calls himself "Glory of God' in the Semitic language…that is your basis for believing he actually is the Glory of God?! Anyone can call themselves whatever name they want in whatever language they want. But calling oneself 'Glory of God' is a very dangerous thing to do, because God will hold him accountable for that one day. Believe me, Baha’u’llah will know, when he stands before the throne of the true God, that he is NOT the glory of God, but instead a wretched sinner who needs a Savior… just like the rest of us. Baha’u’llah is and was just like any false teacher…just a mere man claiming to be God or be like God..

        Take your Bible in hand, open it up, start at the beginning and read it all the way to the end. When you are done, do it again. Read the ENTIRE Word of God…not this part and that part. If you do, you will surely see it does not support the beliefs of the false religion of Bahai. Jesus can be clearly seen in the Bible from Old Testament to the New. In fact, it is ALL about Jesus. And it is all about our sin and our need of a Redeemer. It is all about how a loving God came down to earth to give His life as a ransom for our sin so we can be set free, have new life in Him, and escape the torment of hell that our sins deserve and gain an eternal home in heaven.

        There is no chance of heaven…of salvation…without Jesus. "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life…no man comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6 (What do you do with a verse like that?) It is so plain. But you have to read the WHOLE Bible and keep reading it and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself to you. Our God CAN be known. He gave us His Word so we can learn of Him. He is a personal God. I hope you don't miss out on a relationship with Him by continuing to believe that all religions can be reconciled and that peace can be established on this earth without the Prince of Peace who is Jesus…not Baha’u’llah. There is only one who truly is the 'Glory of God…Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.

        You are very gracious in your responses and I know you are sincere of heart, but we need more than sincerity and good intentions when considering these matters that will have eternal consequences for us. We need the Truth. The Bible…the whole Bible…is the only place it can be found. Open your mind and search it to see if what I am saying is true. I was saved out of the false religion of Catholicism. I thought I had all the answers until I read the Bible and believed it to be God's Word.

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      • D says:

        Thank you for your follow up response, I am glad to be able to continue the conversation with you.
        I would tell you that I believe it is an incorrect reading of the Holy Scriptures to suppose that Paul, Barnabas, and Peter accused each other of being false teachers (please understand that term in light of what Peter wrote in 2nd Peter 2). With a complete absence of any such accusation made in the scriptures, what you do see in the scriptures is an instance when Peter, having received a direct revelation of the Lord (Acts 10:1-15), fell into hypocrisy by refusing association with the gentile Christians whom God had saved, and Paul warned him saying that he stood condemned (Galatians 2:11), however, if you recall, Peter repented and restoration was added to the body (Acts 11). Paul actually submitted to the authority of Peter and James in the Jerusalem counsel when they prepared an answer by the Lord as to what should be taught to the gentiles and recognized Paul’s ministry. And indeed, as you say, nothing has changed since the days of Paul when he was abandoned by almost everyone except Timothy and a few brethren. Today, just as then, brethren, including myself, suffer the loss of family and friends because of their faith, and suffer the loss of even our beloved brethren because of those deceivers who come bring another Jesus or offering another gospel that is not of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
        Certainly it was Jesus who warned that many Saviors would come, some (not all) even claiming to be He Himself, but surely we know that Jesus specifically forbade us, saying “but do not go out to them” (Matthew 24:4-5, 10, 23-26).
        Herein is one of my primary points of warning for you, my friend, because the Love of Christ compelled Him beforehand to see fit to warn us specifically that such a thing as taught by Baha’u’llah could not be, namely, that no prophet, Savior, or even such a one claiming to be Jesus return again can rightly make that claim because Jesus will NOT return again until He returns as descending from the Heavens in all His glory to render judgment to the nations and fulfill what has been written about the end of time.
        I’ve held conversations with others of the Baha’i faith who state, as you have, that there’s no contradiction with Baha’u’llah’s teachings on Hell, sin and evil, the devil, and eternity and those teachings of Jesus, however, I believe that this claim does not hold its own value for the following reasons: I believe according to what I’ve been told by a man who was educated at one of the top Baha’i schools in India, there is not an eternal “fire and brimstone” Hell whereby unrepentant sinners will be held in eternal punishment for eternity. As I’ve had it explained to me, Heaven is a very large city/kingdom, with the center being where “god” dwells, and the most righteous are able to dwell nearest him, with those who are least righteous being the furthest away from God, though not specifically being tormented by the wrath of God.
        Likewise, the teaching and solution on what sin is and what the answer to sin is, which according to the scriptures kills all flesh and is condemned in the flesh, does not match up. The latter teaching on sin and its answer is one that I have yet to receive an answer from Baha’i.
        Again, I thank you for the conversation!

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      • Paul says:

        Answer to D
        D said
        “fulfill what has been written about the end of time”.
        Tell me… what are the signs of the End Times?
        D said
        “But, the point I would like you to consider is that their scriptures were literally replete with prophecies about the coming of the Messiah in the form that He came. It is almost not an exaggeration to suggest that the scriptures could not have been more specific about who Jesus was and how He would come unless it had predicted His social-security-number (ok, I’m not great with jokes). Even the Jews rejecting Him as prophesied (Isaiah 53, the whole chapter).”
        Dear D
        Consider that Jews of Jesus time were expecting the appearance of Elijah, as stated very clearly in Malachi 3:24. Consider that Jews of Jesus time were expecting a descendant of David to re-establish and sit on the throne of David. They believed that the Messiah would restore and enforce the laws of Moses. Of course as Christians we understand the fulfillment of these requirements. The key word here is ‘understand’. The Jews denied Him because they made a deity of their own beliefs.

        D Said
        “however, I believe that this claim does not hold its own value”
        You are entitled to believe what you will. However keep an open mind and investigate further. Find someone who can answer your questions. I don’t expect to give you all the answers in a few short comments. You have to make the effort.
        D Said
        “As I’ve had it explained to me, Heaven is a very large city/kingdom, with the center being where “god” dwells, and the most righteous are able to dwell nearest him, with those who are least righteous being the furthest away from God.”
        This is someone’s understanding that they shared with you. Try to find the actual writings of Baha’u’llah and take some time to read and meditate. They are freely available.
        In the Bahai Faith, to sin is to disobey God, but the greatest sin is to show pride towards God – to deny His Message, and as the Jews of the New Testament, to kill His Messenger.

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      • Onesimus says:

        (This is D- apparently Standupforthetruth now requires a longer name) Sorry I never responded to this last comment, I must have lost it or gotten busy; I saw it today when I received a notification for a new comment.

        If you would like to read the signs of the end-times, the following passages would be a good starting place; Matthew 24, 2nd Thessalonians 2, 1 Timothy 4:1-5 (and, of course, the book of Revelation). And I would encourage you to read these passages for what they say; as much as possible, we should try to excuse ourselves from human commentary, but accept what the Word says.

        I feel like perhaps you missed my point about the Old Testament's prophecies concerning the coming of the Messiah and deflected to a different point by talking about how the Jews perceived his coming: my point is that the Old Testament was saturated with prophecies of Jesus' coming, whereas, the New Testament is saturated with warnings of many false-messiahs and a clear depiction of the whole world beholding the second coming of Christ. It will be impossible to miss His second coming.

        That is my main point; I'm not asking you to consider the errors the Jews made (clearly, they made errors and missed Jesus– don't consider their errors, lest you likewise err). I would rather encourage you to reconsider why Jesus warned of those who would come and deceive.

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  7. Zla'od says:

    Eric Stetson has been a Baha'i, a Christian Universalist, and now I believe he is a Unitarian Universalist. So you might say that he's been born again…and again, and again! Here's his website: http://www.bahai-faith.com/

    Like

  8. Paul says:

    Hi
    You should also read http://www.bahai-faith.com/apology.html
    Eric appears to continue to believe in Baha'u'llah as a Messenger from God. He's very intelligent, and I believe well meaning, but he would've done better to remain within the community and contribute his formidable capabilities to the gradual development of the Faith. Some of his criticism have some validity but they are not as serious as he sometimes represents.
    There were controversies at the start of Christianity (Read Acts). There were controversies in early Islam, but these did not stop these revelations from bringing civilization forward.
    Similarly, the Bahai Faith encounters some challenges and obstacles, but is still a vehicle for the power of goodness that comes from God, and still better to remain within the community.

    Like

  9. Paul says:

    My answer to D#
    —————————
    Dear D#
    I read your reply with interest. Yes there were and are many false teachers. St Paul, St Barnabas and St Peter all ended up accusing each other of being false teachers. In Acts 13:6 we are told about some one who called himself the Son of Jesus! There are documented cases of followers of St Paul abandoning him (See 2 Tim 4:9 compared to Col 4:14).
    As for what is central to Jesus teachings, I have to remind you of the denial of Jews at the time of Jesus. Indeed if it had not been for the intervention of the Holy Spirit St Paul would have remained an ardent Pharisee persecuting the early believers, who still considered themselves Jews. They did not adopt the term Christian until some time later in Antioch, after Paul’s conversion.
    Infact there is no contradiction between Baha’u'llahs teachings on Hell, or eternity or the details of Matt 24 on the manner and events of his return.
    Baha’u'llah is the return of Jesus, expected by both Christians and Muslims. He fulfills the literal meaning of many prophecies in Christan, Jewish and Muslim traditions. However ultimately it’s not an intellectual answer, though intellect can guide you there. We are living a Day of judgment, and I invite you to investigate further. Read the Acts of the Apostles carefully. Confirmation of Baha’u'llahs mission can be found there, as in many other books of the Bible. This is not something to be taken lightly. My prayers go out to you, that your eyes may be illumined, and your soul enlightened.

    Like

  10. Paul says:

    St Paul uses a wonderful quote from Habakuk (1:5) in his presentation to his Jewish listerners to awaken them to the significance of the times and the reality of Jesus. I think it's equally relevant in this Day of His return.
    "Cast your eyes around you, mockers;
    be amazed, and perish! For I am doing something in your own days that you would not believe if you were to be told of it." Acts13:41
    Note also how Paul's arguments are adapted to his listeners. Reading Acts 17:24 and following is like reading about the teachings of the Baha'i Faith.
    "We are all His children". "He has fixed a Day when all men will be judged, and he has appointed a man to be the judge".
    Blessing to you.

    Like

  11. Paul says:

    For Rose
    Thank you again for your response. I'll try to be brief.
    Rose said
    "I see nothing at all in these verses that are a ‘strong testimony to the truth of Bahai"
    Bible
    Matthew 13:13 (“Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not…”) or Jeremiah 5:21 (“Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not…”).

    Consider for a moment…
    What did St Paul and the early Apostles use in there many dialogues and arguments with the Jews and Greeks of their age? They didn't have the bible we have. Yet people accepted Christ!
    They used the same scriptures as those who denied Christ. St Paul quoted from the Law and the Prophets to the Jews, from the myths to the Greeks. They quoted from the same scrolls but they appealed to their understanding. The same scriptures were used by the deniers and the believers. Does that mean the scriptures were wrong? Does that mean the scriptures were contradictory?
    No! of course not. The scriptures were a guide. Understanding occurs in the hearts and souls.
    Judgment occurred in the hearts and souls of the hearers.
    Put yourself in their place. Would you have accepted Jesus? or would you have sided with the learned, and the wise?
    Would you have chosen Barabbas or Jesus?
    With all humility lets pray for guidance. In a world that appears day by day to be the very fulfillment of St Paul's message to Timothy (2 Tim 3) lets open our eyes and see the world about us.
    " You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times!" (Matt 16:3)

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    • D says:

      I certainly don't want to interject into a conversation that you're having with another person, however, there is a point to what you're saying that I would like to respond to and ask you to consider as well: in your previous response to me you mentioned that the Jews rejected Jesus, and rightly you observe this, and here you observe rightly that Jesus spoke in parables to them as you see that they did not have the "cannon of Scriptures" that we currently have, rather, they had a collection of a few more scriptures than we currently have today. But, the point I would like you to consider is that their scriptures were literally replete with prophecies about the coming of the Messiah in the form that He came. It is almost not an exaggeration to suggest that the scriptures could not have been more specific about who Jesus was and how He would come unless it had predicted His social-security-number (ok, I'm not great with jokes). Even the Jews rejecting Him was prophesied (Isaiah 53, the whole chapter).

      Now, consider that there is no prophesy given by the apostles in our scriptures which tell of the Lord returning in a contradictory manner to how He said He would return (you must understand, the scriptures speak of the clouds being rolled back, all the world seeing Him, and many prophesies that were not fulfilled by Baha'ullah).

      The Lord gave specific prophesies to let us know His exact manner and return so that we would not be deceived by another. And the manner in which Baha'u'llah came does not match how Jesus said He would return.

      Like

      • Paul says:

        "for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night". 1 Thess 5:2

        "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief". 2 Peter 3:10
        I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it" Rev 2:17

        "and I will also write on them my new name" Rev 3:12

        ..and so on.

        Keep an open mind and pray sincerely for guidance. This is a wonderful time to be alive!

        “Look among the nations! Observe!
        Be astonished! Wonder!
        Because I am doing something in your days—
        You would not believe if you were told." Habakuk 1:5

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      • D says:

        (Sorry- this wouldn't allow me to reply to your previous comment)

        It is good to receive your reply.
        I cannot look up the passage you suggested in Malachi 3:24 because Malachi only has 18 verses. However, the point you mentioned that they were expecting Elijah is not necessarily as beneficial; I believe in Jesus Christ, and I believe He is the Messiah spoken of by the Law and the Prophets.
        See John 5:39-40, in which Jesus revealed the real reason why the Jews did not accept Him; He said, “you search the scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. BUT, you are not WILLING to come to Me that you may have life” (emphasis mine). In reading the whole of the Old Testament, including the Law, Psalms, and all the Prophets, I would disagree that they were universally expecting Elijah; there are a great many prophesies (several I’ve already mentioned), which make prophesies that are such that exclude Elijah the prophet, all of which Jesus fulfilled.
        So the error the Jews and Pharisees made was that they were not willing to accept Jesus; He had witnesses that testified of Him in His time (to name a few; John the Baptist- John 1:29-34, The Father & the Holy Spirit- Matthew 3:13-17, and His works- John 10:25-26). So, while they (in general) did not accept Him because they were unwilling, Jesus stilled fulfilled the prophesies of the scriptures that came before Him—the reason why they didn’t get it is simply because they were unwilling, as many are today, because they did not like what Jesus said because He came crucifying the flesh and calling all men to repentance.
        My original points remain; what are the signs of the return of Christ? I ask this because the signs of the Lord’s return are detailed explicitly in the New Testament, and Baha’u’llah did not fulfill them all, as Jesus fulfilled the whole of the Old Testament’s prophecies about the coming Messiah.
        And I appreciate the truth in the statement that we have to investigate things further and that we cannot depend on other people to answer all our questions for us; the Word of God tells His children to “test all things”, though He does not call them to doubt His Word, nor to test God (Deuteronomy 6:16 & Luke 4:12), but especially in regards to the claims of men, you are correct that we have to make the effort to test all things. And that is the reason for my original statement that I don’t believe that claim holds its value.
        The thing that I wish to communicate the most is what I have mentioned above earlier, and I believe it warrants repeating: Matthew 24:4-5, 10, 23-26 are exceedingly clear words that Jesus spoke to warn us not to be deceived by those who would come after Him claiming in some way to be Him or the Messiah. Jesus’ return is distinctly predicted, both by Him, and by His apostles. No one has ever fulfilled them, and no one will ever fulfill them until He returns again in the way that He said He would return, and, this time, no one on earth will mistake His return. It will be clear to all.
        This is why I sincerely ask you to consider this last point, compelled by His love, because His return will also be a final return for the purpose of judgment (Matthew 24:45-51; Hebrews 9:27; 2nd Corinthians 5:9-11).

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      • Paul says:

        Thank you for your response. If you persist you will fine what you are looking for.
        Some versions of the Bible end chapter three of Malachi on the 18th verse and then begin chapter 4 from the 19th. If that's your case then read Malachi 4:5
        My point is that the Jews at the time of Jesus had their beliefs, but they were wrong and stubborn. See Acts 7:51.
        John 5:39 really supports my position. Just give some thought. Notice that the test God put's before us is that of accepting Him, and leaving aside our preconceived notions.
        In the same way, Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the promises of Scripture, not only the Bible but also from all the religions of the world. Baha'u'llah and Jesus are the same person. Don't let the names throw you off. Rev 2:17 and Rev 3:12.
        You say no one will ever fulfill prophecies… but that's blasphemy. Our hope as Christians is in the return. I used the Jews as an example because, despite they reading the same scriptures they did not, and still to this day do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. They have made their beliefs an impediment, a barrier, a veil on their souls.
        We can only say so much by email. I suggest you find a member of the Bahai Community in your area, well versed in the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy, and continue your search. If you are sincere you will find the truth.
        Read the book of Acts 17. Not all the Jews were close minded to the Revelation of Jesus. In Beroea the synogogue was more open minded than the one in Thessalonika. Interesting that Thessalonika remained, and to this day still remains a center for the Jews, under the name of Salonika.
        May your heart be opened to the Light of God.

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      • D says:

        It’s good to receive your response again.
        I understand your point, and I hope that the point of my response is understood as well in that Jesus revealed their error.
        I do want to clear up one point in which there is a misunderstanding: I did not say that no prophecy will be fulfilled, if you will re-read what I wrote, I stated that no one will ever fulfill the prophecies about Jesus’ 2nd coming except Jesus Himself, because He is the Son of God. True prophecy is always fulfilled, but my statement is to say that only Jesus can fulfill the prophecies.
        Baha’u’llah did not fulfill the prophecies of Matthew 24, nor of 2nd Thessalonians, nor of Philippians 2, nor the whole range of prophecies of Revelation.
        I do want to thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me and I appreciate your respect and civility in the conversation. This is certainly a serious issue, and I pray more consideration will be given to the verses I referenced with Jesus warning us not to accept another claiming to be Him until He returns again for judgment. It is a passage that refutes Baha’u’llah’s claim; however, it is a passage that many people are unwilling to address or accept for what it says.

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  12. Sam says:

    Pray sincerely and humbly to God that you will get guidance if you are really seeking after truth …. with a clean heart …

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  13. paul says:

    Thank you for your comment

    Like

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