Changes in Church Leadership

Pope's Blessing

The bust of the Pope at Bucca Di Peppo’s “The Pope’s Table”


In our first segment, we’re discussion the shocking announcement from the Vatican this morning as Pope Benedict announces his resignation, the first Pope in 600 years to leave his post. And then later we are going to talk about Christian leadership, and what it has become. God defines success a lot differently than what we are seeing among popular evangelical leaders today. Dave Wager is going to join us for that discussion.  And then finally, do preachers need to bring up the Gospel in each and every sermon? Some think it breaks up the flow of the service, while others say yes, we need to hear the real Gospel as much as possible.

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Dave Wager is the author of several books and the  president of Silver Birch Ranch and Nicolet Bible Institute in northern Wisconsin. Dave is also the president of a ministry called The Omega Force, a catalyst that helps Christians learn the Word of God through college-level courses that anyone can take online.



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6 Responses to Changes in Church Leadership

  1. Sharon W. says:

    Dear Mike & Amy….Thanks for your radio ministry.
    Enjoy listening to Dave W. He encourages me to think.

    I believe Pope Benedict's resignation will change the playing field, in regards to the prophetic. God has a plan & time will play it out.

    Having that said;
    I was one of those truly saved believers who continued to participate in the system of
    the institutional Catholic church for several decades.
    I can testify to God's mercy & love, convicting me to leave this system four years ago.
    It was 40yrs, to the day!
    [from the time my parents chose to put the communion veil on my head to the day; while watching a video of a ministry/conference speaker, the Holy Spirit convicted me to leave]

    I agree with Dave Wager, when he said about encouraging Catholics to read the bible. I was reading and studying God's Word. It's one way…..
    -But it wasn't until one man, (the conference speaker)…
    -who "Turned into it with the right form" (Dave's comments)……
    -who spoke the scripture verses pertaining to WHY I should leave (Truth&Grace) …
    -who explained those verses for me (knowledge, wisdom & practical application)…
    Then… the Holy Spirit whispered instruction to my heart and I could only say….
    "Yes LORD" and I could write pages on how that decision changed my life
    The weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders and now my spiritual eyesight and spiritual hearing is growing daily….He's growing me up in Grace!

    What was the verse that hit the target?
    Revelation 18:4

    -What is this "spirit of BABYLON?…..In essence, confusion and the
    MIXTURE OF TRUTH & ERROR! (The HOLY Spirit leads us to all TRUTH, not error)

    -If you stay in BABYLON?….you share in her sin and open the door to receive of her plagues in your life. It's not always about the "who is saved & who isn't" issue. It's about God's heart on this issue and those plagues that can come in all shapes and sizes.
    1 PETER 2:20 says "for what glory is it if your are buffeted for your own faults, you take it patiently?"
    Why would we want our brothers & sisters in Christ to remain in this error without at least witnessing to them one time?
    I pray that God will give wisdom and courage to those who have an "Ear to hear";
    that they may speak His Word, in Truth & Love & Grace, to those that the Spirit of God would lead them to.

    I encourage people to do a study on BABYLON THE GREAT. Hopefully, to gain understanding on God's heart on this subject matter. Her influence is WORLD WIDE.
    Choose this day whom you will serve…..The city of Babylon, the kingdoms of this earth…or…. the city of Zion, Yahweh's kingdom the One True God of Life.


    • Nate says:

      Dear Sharon,

      Peace be with you!

      Are you implying by your comments that the Catholic Church is the Wh-re of Babylon?

      If so, do you realize that you actually have to twist and ignore the Word of God to make this fit?

      Do not fall into that trap of twisting and denying the Word of God. Here are two articles that will help you understand this issue better:

      Please prayerfully consider these articles before you try to remove the sliver from your brother's eye.

      God Bless you,


      • Sharon W. says:

        Dear Nate,

        Peace be with you also. No, I am not implying what you state in your comment and apologize if I left you with that impression I didn't want to ramble on in my comment and was only trying to hit certain points with as few words as possible and share my story.

        The main point I wanted to get across was the "spirit of Babylon" [the mixture of Truth & Error/Falsity], has infiltrated the world…every institution, especially the "church", which is the body of Christ, His people….".Come out of her MY PEOPLE". Mystery Babylon can be found from Genesis to Revelation, long before any Institutional church was formed.

        Thank you for including links….I will take the time to look them over. This is a subject that I have given much time in study & prayer for some time now, but I also know there is much more that I can always learn.


      • Nate says:

        Dear Sharon

        Thank you so much for getting back to me. I just listened to the above show and am quite disapointed in Mike, Amy and Dave's takes… they have not done what you are which is Prayerfully, but openly and honestly looking at the information.

        When it comes to eccumenical dialog I am always reminded of the quote from Fulton Sheen: "There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church."

        I have percieved a personal calling of mine to clear out the smoke clouds the vision of some to what the Catholic Church ACTUALLY teaches and believes.

        Long way of saying, if you ever have any questions about what the Catholic Church ACTUALLY teaches – and not the James White, Dave Hunt, Jack Chick, Lorainne Boettner lies – please goto They have thousands of podcasts, articles, videos and the largest Free Catholic Blog (anyone is welcome to join and ask any questions) to show what the Catholic Church ACTUALLY teaches.

        Right now, I care less if people disagree with what the Catholic Church teaches than I do about getting around all the smoke screen lies that have been circulated for 500 ish years….

        God Bless you in His Name: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit



  2. Mr Davis says:

    The protestants have fallen into the same error.

    Just as the Catholic Church teach through tradition and the authroity of man to pray to others than: Christ the only mediator between God and man, the Father who sent the Son and whom Christ said we may approach Him directly for He loves us and the Holy Spirit for it is the Power of God for all who believe. So we are to pray to God alone. These Three are One, the Triune God. Unified in Mind, Body and Spirit, through these we enter into One will, One Hope, One Faith and One Baptism. It is the looking to man instead of Christ Jesus that leads to all this error, where we do not do what we are commanded. We are called to follow Christ Jesus and to walk as He himself walked.

    For the carnal man this is impossible: What selfish person willingly and selflessly without any thought will deny all that the world offers to take up their cross and follow Christ. Our whole being goes against this. Our mind is dead to Christ, unresponsive and requires regeneration. We need to be born again. But we are not born again by our will, our blood line, or another mans will but by God's will.

    But God's will is not under our control or influence and this upsets us. So we use whatever means is at our disposal to cause others to follow us. It's not hard to do since we are always looking for an idol to save us to point us to the "truth". Today in America these idols require a degree because we hold the wisdom of man in very high regard and its the credentials we look to or slick words which appeal to carnal men. As soon as we look to a man to give us the truth, we have taken our eyes off Christ Jesus.

    So you see these same use of exercising mans will through practices carried on by tradtions in the protestant circles is no different than the idolarty in Catholic circles.

    So lets look again at this whore, the Mystery of Babylon, riding the back of the beast. Let us not look past this facett: it is the systems working in the world, pulling us into adultry against our Christ who died for our sins and so betray Him who purchased us by His own blood. Look at 1 John 2 if you think I lie. So to receive the gospel is to reject the world and all it runs after. This is exhibited in true repentance and why repentance continues. This is not the gospel many have recieved. Rather what did we receive: Just add Christ, just do, just profess and you will be ok with God.


  3. Nate says:

    "Just as the Catholic Church teach through tradition and the authroity of man to pray to others than: Christ the only mediator between God and man, the Father who sent the Son and whom Christ said we may approach Him directly for He loves us and the Holy Spirit for it is the Power of God for all who believe. So we are to pray to God alone."

    Dear Mr. Davis,

    the Peace of Christ be with you,

    Sir, do you deny the Word of God? Yes the Word of God warns against following the "traditions (paradosis in greek) of men" Mk 7:8 and others. But the Word of God also states "So then, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS (paradosis – same word) we passed on to you, WHETHER BY WORD OF MOUTH OR BY LETTER." (2 Thes 2:15 – emphasis added).
    and elsewhere "I praise you for remembering me in everything and for HOLDING TO THE TRADITIONS (again paradosis), just as I passed them on to you." 1 Cor 11:2

    There are a half dozen more verses that UPHOLD tradition. The Catholic Church has taught consistantly, from the mouths of the Apostles to modern day, with out wavering, that we must Hold Fast to the Divine Tradition (of which Sacred Scripture is a part of) and to avoid the traditions of man.

    Want to know if you are following the traditions of man or of God? Ask yourself this: who founded my church and when? All but one Christian group must, in all honesty, name a MAN and a date…

    Seek the TRUTH, not what your pastor, friends, Dave Hunt, Jack T Chick, James White, Mike Lemay or Lorrane Boettner tell you the truth is….

    God Bless You in The Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, AMEN!



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