This is warfare: two realms, two approaches

I regret that I didn’t know enough about the topic of Spiritual Warfare in 2011 to be able to give a biblical response to Dr. Karl Payne, author of Spiritual Warfare: Christians, Demonization and Deliverance. I interviewed him several times when I was a host of Stand Up For The Truth, but when voicing my concerns was brushed off by my boss. “It’s a completely biblical book,” I was told. And yet as I read it, I knew that there was something dreadfully wrong about Christians dabbling in the demonic.

Payne is a “modern-day pastor who casts out demons.” I recommend reading the link to see how he does it. Then read Bob DeWaay’s excellent article, How Deliverance Ministries Lead People to Bondage.  Finally, this White Paper on Angels, Demons, and  Spiritual Warfare


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2 Responses to This is warfare: two realms, two approaches

  1. Christine Pack says:

    I just finished listening to the show, and I disagree very strongly with today's guest (Karl Payne). According to Dr. Payne, you uncover a sin, repent of it, get rid of the demon, and then your fear of the demon should cause you to not do that sin again? What about the fear of the Lord???


  2. I listened to today's show with Karl Payne also, and atleast he said there are other correct methodologies out there in dealing with demons. So I'd like to offer some alternatives to his prescription for dealing with demons.
    I will try to recall some of his examples to do this.
    If you are not sleeping at night:
    certainly, I agree you should pray to God, and ask God for good restful sleep. If God gives you a goodnight's sleep, then thank Him for it.
    If God does not give you a restful sleep, then thank God for it- because
    1- Christians are told to make their petitions to God
    2- we're also told to be content in plenty or in want
    3- and we're told to be thankful in all things
    4- we can trust that God does everything according to His own pleasure and will, that behind even hard circumstances (even sleepless nights), God's kind intentions are behind it (Eph.1), and we know God is working out ALL THINGS for our sanctification and His own glory (Romans 8)

    The example of having a thought that you hurt your spouses feelings:
    I submit that you need not spend ANY time trying to figure out where that thought came from (as KP teaches we are to determine if it is from the Holy Spirit, demons, or just our own thinking).
    Instead, take that thought captive unto obedience to Christ. How do you do this? You determine if the thought is true. What is the easiest way to do that? Ask your spouse: "Did I hurt your feelings when I said …?"
    Maybe there is a demon of hurt feelings out there or maybe there isn't. Who knows. What matters is that you deal with the reality of the situation. Even if you bind some demon that supposedly put that thought in your head- you still need to address your spouse.
    All thoughts should be held up to scripture and weighed against it. Our fleshly thinking is broken. Period. Our thoughts are either true (they line up and agree with God's Word) or they don't. If they don't line up with God's Word, don't blame some demon for the fact that you have believed a lie. Repent from that lie and believe God. We must deal with the problem at it's root.
    I thought this "method" worked for a while just as KP talks about. But guess what, my flesh is still there, sin is still crouching at the door, Satan is still prowling around like a hungry lion – despite all the bindi g and rebuking I did. I will wage this war against sin, Satan, and my flesh till the day I physically die or Jesus returns. But now, I'm waging it with the divine weapons God has given me. I do not address or deal with demons directly anymore at all. And I see progress in my own sanctification.
    Prior to my salvation I was in bondage to Saran and his minions, but one of the great promises of being in Christ, is that I've been freed. Prior to salvation is when you should fear demons, not after. What can they do to me? Even if they me- so what. I'll be with Jesus. Fear the One who has the power over your body and your soul.
    If God sees fit to let a demon tempt me and frustrate me- what is the answer to that problem? To flee to Christ, to trust Him, to trust His plan and purposes, to exercise faith in God- in all that He is and all that He says.
    I am so passionate about this issue.
    Please listen to me if you are under this type of teaching- if you are truly in Christ, you have been sealed with the Holy Spirit, and God has ready given you every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms ( see Eph.1), you are in the cleft of the rock, you are free, you are blessed- not cursed any longer.


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