Manifesting: Which spirit?

ihopThis is a video posted by IHOP of one of its interns, a young girl named Katie, sharing her testimony about how the Spirit of God manifested in her, and continues to manifest to this day.

Watch and discern. What is she saying? What is her body language communicating? How would you test the spirits with someone like Katie and her friend?

Finally, the description for this video speaks for itself: “As a TM (transmeditation) ย practioner & a Siddha I can concur with what’s happenning here to some of these people. There bodies have experienced a release of kundalini shakti & are to an extent spontanously practcing Hatha Yoga.”

PLEASE be careful about what you allow and believe. The spirit realm is very real, and it is infecting the Church and Body of Christ at an alarming rate in these last days.

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44 Responses to Manifesting: Which spirit?

  1. Lorne Elliott says:

    She looks almost incapacitated and in pain at times. She never mentions sin, repentance or Christ as the only way to eternal life. Once she seemed to relax for a second to brush her hair out of her face.


    • Robert says:

      Thank you ! This entire ministry seems to be missing the point with regards to the gospel. All they talk about is prayer, but never the One who made it possible with his suffering, death, and resurrection and our need for grace. I mean, maybe they do, but it seems to me that their highest priority is to promote their way of prayer.


  2. Amy Spreeman says:

    Just my take, this looks like the Kundalini spirit. I'm posting a second video soon on this that shows how this same spirit manifests in the Eastern religions.


    • Lisa Watkins says:

      I guess this is what happened when the church in the last 7-8 years accepted yoga exercise into the church, calling it Christian yoga???


    • Ian says:

      (part 1)

      Canada and others, respectfully, the Kundalini spirit doesn't exist.

      Hinduism (and Yoga is based on Hindu philosophy) is a false religion and so its gods are all false gods. They do not exist other than in people's imagination. Likewise, Hindu spirits such as Kundalini are false spirits and also do not exist.

      A better explanation for what we see in this video is suggested by this quote, found on:

      "What is perceived as spiritual is in reality soulish, contributing to a euphoric state of altered consciousness from repetitious choruses that follow one upon the other. The mesmerizing effect of the music creates a frame of mind open to suggestion by the subsequent preaching of dominionist teachers who build on the fervor of the moment with messages of future power and glory"


    • Ian says:

      (part 2)

      As that author says, the hours of music at IHOP have a hypnotic effect. And, over time, people there can end up in an almost permanent trance state in which they are given to strange physical manifestations (and note the music in the background as she speaks). But these manifestations are produced by the mind, in its altered state, affecting the body. They are nothing to do with the supernatural or mythical spirits.

      By saying it is the Kundalini spirit manifesting, you are validating false pagan beliefs. This worries me, as that's not something that any Christian should be doing.


  3. This is a continuation of our conversation on the FB page

    Let's try an experiment ๐Ÿ™‚ Let's take a youtube video… one that you say is questionable or you are uncertain of… Now let's try to be specific and determine (without undermining the people in the video) what manifestations or teachings you are uncomfortable with. Next, lets keep asking the question "Why?". Why am I uncomfortable with this… Then we can discuss those specific manifestations before labeling someone as false based on a manifestation. ๐Ÿ™‚


  4. Ingrid Hansen says:

    So in this case, the question begins with "Why am I uncomfortable with twitching or shaking?"


  5. Amy Spreeman says:

    These precious girls can barely stand up straight or speak clearly. So I have to ask myself as I watch them, "Would the Holy Spirit do this?" If we look in Scripture, we never see accounts of the apostles or other followers acting this way. In fact the only time we really see this kind of manifestation is in those who had demons that Jesus cast out (like the boy in Mark 9:17).

    I don't see scriptural precedent for the manifestations going on with these girls. 1 Corinthians 12-14 describes the way in which God, the Holy Spirit will manifest Himself through the church, but losing control of your body is not one of them. But as the other videos in this article show, those who practice false religions do manifest in these ways.


  6. Ingrid Hansen says:

    Let's start with "Would the Holy Spirit do this"? Why do you think the Holy Spirit cannot do this?

    As for your comments about no precedent? Why do you say that if there is no precedent for something in the Bible then it cannot be God? How you you then deal with this verse – “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” (John 21:25, NIV84)

    You speak about seeing shaking with demons. Agreed. But.. Why do you believe that if the false do something, the true cannot? How do you respond to Hannah in Scripture who appeared drunk?

    Have you read my topic of how to discern?… because I walk through those questions.

    But it seems the key response to my question of WHY is the question of losing control. I am guessing that this is what really disturbs you. So, let's go a bit deeper with the WHY ๐Ÿ™‚ Why does it bother you that perhaps God will not permit you to be in control?


    • Reba says:

      One of the fruits of the spirits is Self Control!! This is disturbing, I agree, Jesus heaeld people from the palsy. I have read about the tactics they use on interns, it lines up with those of witchcraft. The church needs to wake up!! Also, every believer I know that went to some revival and got "slain in the spirit" now has emotional and spiritual problems. These things cause confusion, God is a God of order! The spirit edifies and heals and brings holiness. Having people run around in circles, bark like dogs, pass out and and look like lunatics is chaos, not order, not edifying.


  7. Prudence says:

    Ingrid are you going to listen to the broadcast tomorrow? With Johanna Michaelsen? I have read a book called The Light that was Dark by Warren Smith and A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen. I think they are along the same lines as Johanna Michaelsen. They are why I feel so strongly about these subjects. Not to put myself into you and Amy's conversation. But I would be curious what you think of the broadcast or one of these books if you read them. Your comments do have me thinking, although I still feel the same….but I am thinking how I react to people..


    • Amy Spreeman says:

      That is an excellent book, Prudence! I just got off the phone with Johanna, and we talked about this video with Katie and Amy from IHOP. She is going to look at the video and perhaps we will have time to mention it on the show.

      Johanna has some great tips and scriptural resources for discerning the spirits.


  8. Ingrid Hansen says:

    Prudence :-),

    Considering this is a public forum, feel free to share and to also answer the WHY questions. In my own life, I have found that the question "WHY" asked often enough of ourselves and answered truthfully will eventually expose what it is that we truly believe about God. Asking the "why" question of myself while understanding that I love God's Word and want God alone has brought great change to my life over many years. ๐Ÿ™‚

    God Bless you Prudence!


    • Prudence says:

      Ingrid have you read those books? It would help in understanding why some christians are so careful and not quickly accepting of these practices.
      Amy, what time tomorrow will this be broadcast? If I come to this site will there be a link?


      • Ingrid Hansen says:

        I have not read those books, but I have read many books. Some I toss, and some are good. I guess I am trying to keep this discussion on why based on Scripture. If you want to use other's opinions I could also share books that clearly have the perspective that this is God.

        The opinions I hold today are not based on books but on my own study of God's word.

        Have you read my link where I shared how I discern?


      • Prudence says:

        I did read your link. I used to accept everything too. I didn't want to believe my favorite teachers could be wrong, or that I had been wrong all those years. I am not basing my opinion on those books or someone elses opinion. God was showing me red flags before I even knew any of this and that is what started me digging. What the books I listed above showed me was how Satan really does masquerade as an angel of light and try to mimic God. It is truly frightening how easy it is to be deceived, myself included.


      • Ingrid Hansen says:

        Yes Satan does pretend to be light – the Scripture clearly says that, but that does not mean that every manifestation is from Satan.

        I choose to discern based on fruit. Satan will not do what drives me closer to God, what keeps me studying the Word more, or praying more. Satan will not do what propels me to preach the Gospel more or become more Holy…..

        A simple test is the test of the changed life. ๐Ÿ™‚


      • bob says:

        Ingrid is the type of person who sees the "gold dust" appear and promises it is real. Then when it is revealed that it was actually plastic glitter, she says "Who's to say God can't make plastic glitter appear on people." There is no way to have a rational discussion with someone like this.


  9. Jenny Newhouse says:

    In dealing with manifestations, one thing that comes to mind is:
    Does it point to Jesus? If it does not point to Jesus and glorify Him, then what is it accomplishing? When I see someone hardly able to speak or stand while trying to deliver a message, I see this as bringing attention to themselves. I'm not trying to be critical…I don't believe that in most cases the people involved are doing anything intentionally to draw attention to themselves, but they are getting attention none the less.
    Secondly if something is questionable (other believers are uncomfortable), I personally would rather err on the side of caution. I feel that often times unknowingly we can give the enemy a foothold….so when I feel that "caution" flag go up in my spirit and just feel that something is wrong, I tend to run in the opposite direction and then I ask the Lord to show me if I have erred. Just my thoughts……


  10. Ingrid Hansen says:

    @Jenny Your opinion is ok. ๐Ÿ™‚ You do not need to pursue this. But if you condemn it, then it must be from Scripture which is why I am asking the why questions.

    I agree with pointing to Jesus, but that you will not know until you ask the person who had the experience what happened in their life and watch if they are growing in the Lord. Did you read my link on how to discern? I walk through a series of questions I ask to understand if something is God or not.

    You are welcome to yield to caution for your life, but that does not mean that those who have spiritual manifestations are not having them from God.

    I believe that I should not condemn what I do not understand. We must seek to understand. We condemn what is clearly understood to be evil and embrace what is clearly understood to be good. We seek God for a clear understanding.


    • bob says:

      Why, based on scripture, do you think false prophecies are no big deal?


      • Reese says:

        In reading this conversation I was thinking the same thing.

        I'm glad I ran into this discussion – albeit years late – as I'm researching this disturbing movement/trend in our churches. I'd never even heard of it until recently and its done nothing but raise red flags. I was raised in an A/G church, backslid as a late teen/young adult, came back to find my faith as a slightly older young adult, and am now deepening my faith. Seeing young people who're searching for meaning and trying to figure out their faith, beliefs, and place in this world being led astray and deceived is horrifying, sickening, and angering to me as a person. This has all been very enlightening.


  11. Jenny Newhouse says:

    God is not the author of confusion and I believe as stated in James 1 that if we truly want to know something, God will reveal the answer to us.

    Just as I need to not discount the spirit and the workings of the spirit (some gravitate in this direction), neither do I believe we should believe something we've experienced because it brought us feelings of joy and peace. Or because trusted teachers in our lives are promoting it.

    My challenge for all of us is to truly get on our faces before God to ask Him to conform us to His image and give us wisdom. Proverbs is filled with passages speaking about wisdom and how we should seek it.

    If anyone did not listen to Johanna's message today, please consider doing so.


    • Ingrid Hansen says:

      Confusion in our minds is a lack of understanding. However in 1 Cor 14:33 which you paraphrase, the Greek Word used speaks of "to rise up in open defiance of authority, with the presumed intention to overthrow it or to act in complete opposition to its demands—‘to rebel against, to revolt, to engage in insurrection, rebellion.

      Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (495). New York: United Bible Societies."

      The Greek Word is also used in these verses —
      "in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger;” (2 Corinthians 6:5, NIV84)
      "When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”” (Luke 21:9, NIV84)

      God is not the author of rebellion against the authority he has implemented in the church or the instructions he has given the church.

      Our modern understanding of confusion is lack of understanding and we take this verse to mean that if I don't understand it, God cannot be it. However God expects that there will be many things we do not understands and counsels us many times to seek wisdom.

      "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.” (James 1:5–8, NIV84)


    • Ingrid Hansen says:

      I also wrote a little more about confusion here —… in response to your question. ๐Ÿ™‚


  12. julie says:

    Have you ever noticed that when Jesus healed people and drove out demons that the healed were raised up? Jesus often took them by the hand and RAISED them up. By contrast, the demons would throw them down, throw them into the fire or cause them to fall. (Mark 2:11-12; Mark 5:6-20; Mark 9:17-27; John 5:6-9)

    When Jesus healed people or brought them back to life, they were given back their humanity. Jesus Christ gave back to them their very lives. He treated them with dignity and kindness. When Jesus healed people, then they were clothed and in their right mind. Jesus lifted them up, restoring them both spiritually and physically. (Mark 5:41-42; Mark 5:15; Luke 7:14-15)

    Whenever Jesus Christ healed folks, they were normal -no longer were they writhing on the ground, or frothing at the mouth, or twitching, or convulsing, incapacitated, or running wild. Instead they were sitting/standing up, normal, clothed and calm. (Mark 5:15; Mark 9:27)

    The Apostle Peter also does this in Acts 3:1-10. He helps a man up when he heals him. The man is filled with joy, walking, jumping and praising God.

    Compare all of this with what you see in the video. When Jesus brings His true spiritual manifestations they are accompanied by life, health, normalcy and dignity for people. Do not be deceived.


    • JulieS says:

      Amen to that, Julie.


    • SL says:

      About 'raising up' people who are healed, I have seen many people miraculously healed in confirmation of the gospel of Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected…who fell down! I sometimes wonder when I read people criticizing supernatural phenomena, would they know a miracle if it hit them in the head? Have they seen blind eyes opened, deaf ears suddenly begin to hear, the crippled leap and run, cancers disappear…all in the name of Jesus? I know these people of whom I write were healed because I was there; I was blessed to be preaching Jesus and God confirmed His Word with signs following. And guess what? Many of them…fell down when they received their healing. Are you going to tell God He can't heal people when they fall down, or when they shake? That there's only one right way to do it, by golly? No – the Word of God is ALIVE, not a dead letter in which "this is what happened in Bible days and this is the only way it happens today." God can heal people if they stand without flinching or if they do cartwheels and stand on their heads – it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't contradict scripture. "Man looks on the outward appearance; God looks on the heart."

      Yes, there are 'lying signs and wonders', yes there are carnal expressions of emotion. But my observation after years of ministry of the gospel is that the people who are most critical of manifestations of the supernatural, who present themselves as the 'experts', are often the people who frankly don't know what they're talking about when it comes to the supernatural. They might write books on the Holy Spirit, but they don't know Him. To them, I say, repent, cast off unbelief, and get around where Jesus is being preached and He is doing the things He did in Bible days, only now He's doing them through people. Read the Word hungrily, like it's the first time. Apply yourself to believing and then acting on what God says in the Bible. Go out on a limb. Get passionate for God. Wake up!

      FYI, I'm not a fan of IHOP for various reasons. But when you're critical of how people engage with God when it's clear they're responding to the good news of Jesus Christ – what spirit are you of?


  13. fidlerten says:

    What does the Word teach us concerning this subject; that should be what you guys are asking but I don't see that from any of you actually did that here. Jenny came close but where's the scripture?

    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4-2 & 3

    Discernment of the Spirit is a gift of the Spirit and there is no lessons to learn on how to discern the spirit.

    I do think you all need to be careful of what you "discern" about anyone. You also can be in danger of calling that which is of God, of Satan which is what the Scribes and Pharasees accused of Jesus of being.

    The Holy Spirit judges all things, but we should leave it up to the Holy Spirit and just because something is unfamiliar with you doesn't mean it isn't from God.

    As someone who came from a Pentecostal background, I know a lot of people who would call the manifestation of the Holy Spirit through the nine Spiritual gifts to be of the Devil. I'm here to say that the Pentecostal doctrine is scriptural in every sense as Paul talked about the gifts of the Spirit in detail.


    • Mr Davis says:

      Sadly the gifts are rarely if ever are practiced in accordance with God's word to this end.

      1 Corinthians 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him . 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together , having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked : 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer , all the members suffer with it ; or one member be honoured , all the members rejoice with it.

      Holding fast to
      1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned , and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 Charity suffereth long , and is kind ; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself , is not puffed up , 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly , seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked , thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth:

      It has been my experince with the pentecostals that they would boast in their gifts and exalt themselves thinking of themselves higher than they aught. They would think less of someone who doesn't have their gift. This points to a lack of understanding of the Body of Christ and the operation of the Holy Spirit.


      • fidlerten says:

        Mr. Davis,

        I would tend to agree with you. Though I do believe the gifts should be practiced in the Church, The gifts are given to the Church, not just Pentecostals.

        Along with that, some Pentecostals put too much emphasis on the tongues and not on the other gifts, which should be just as prominently used as the tongues.

        I actually follow the Charismatic movement which also believes in and practices the gifts. The Late Kenneth E. Hagen inspires my beliefs.


  14. SL says:

    Maybe it would be constructive to think of Katie's 'manifestations' as a human response to the working of the Holy Spirit in her. Such unusual expressions accompanied many great revivals in history. Is it the Holy Spirit? Not strictly. What we see is a young woman who is reacting physically, emotionally, and spiritually to the revelation of the reality of God, which comports with what she's saying. It's the Holy Spirit at work in a human vessel. More Christians should have such revelations.

    If you listen to her talk, she describes her experience with God, her response to being asked to speak to her church (a rather significant event in the life of a young person, or anyone for that matter), and her realizing that God is jealous for us, that He desires uncompromising love from us, and so on. What's unscriptural about this? Do we demand that she say the words "sin" and "Jesus" and "the cross" at least once in every sentence for her description of her experience to pass muster in our eyes? Concerning false prophets, Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits." The fruit I perceived in the video, according to what she said, was that of a changed life. I pray God continues to work in her life and that she has great success in Him.

    Some of this "truth-finding", which in some instances focuses on gnats while swallowing camels, puts me in mind of Jesus' words to the church at Ephesus in Revelations 2:1-4 – zealously ferreting out error while losing sight of love for God. The Pharisees also had this problem. Love for God is not a cold, calculated, emotionless exercise that some Christians would have us believe and that many churches demonstrate. Love for God engages our souls – which includes our emotions – and our bodies, our minds, and all our strength. So if you see someone acting a little 'soulish' in their expression of love for and awe of God, give them a break. Heartfelt love, especially combined with revelation of God, can cause people to be passionate and do unusual things. Just look at Jesus.


    • Ian says:

      A late response to the above comment from "SL". I want to question your assertion that the Holy Spirit is at work in this young lady. It's well known that long periods of repetitive singing or music can have a hypnotic effect, and this is what happens all the time at IHOP. Trances or altered states of consciousness can cause all sorts of strange feelings and behaviour in people, including the things we see on this video.

      I don't discern any spirits here, including the Holy Spirit. It's simply a artifical religious experience brought on by music (and note how music is playing throughout this clip). Nothing sinister, but nothing divine either – and that's what concerns me. People who claim that such man-made phenomena are from God are deeply deluded.


  15. Nellie says:

    I see how easy it is for people to misinterpret the “manifestations” of the Holy Spirit, which are strictly listed in 1 Corinthians 12 and the fruits in Galatians 5. But what is not mentioned is the communion of the Holy Spirit, I believe 2 Corinthians 13:14 or 15. Communion is fellowship, intimacy, social intercourse, partnership. These movements are not a sign of communion of the Holy Ghost.

    We are to be IN AGREEMENT, and nowhere in Scripture does it mention about the Holy Spirit taking over bodily movements. If it was so, I believe Paul, Stephen, and other men in the N.T. would have spoke of this “experience.”

    If the Word does not speak of these manifestations, then it cannot be agreeable from the Holy Spirit.

    And a person’s own devotional is not a final word of authority on this. The Word is.


  16. Teambuilder says:

    A few years ago I was involved in a group that displayed these manifestations, born out of the 'Toronto movement'. It happened to coincide with a time when God was doing a lot with me leading to my salvation. I don't believe I was saved at that time as I didn't know about repentance. I did that very same shaking. It felt really good but as time went on it didn't sit right. The leaders of the group called the Holy Spirit 'it' and also the fruit wasn't there. They are known by their fruit There wasn't a lot of discernment in the fellowship I also attended. I reached a stage where I said to God, if this is not from You, I want it to stop. I believe Scripture is very clear that this is not of God. He is not a God to be mocked and there is NO confusion about Him. This doesn't line up in any way with Scripture. Some people will say about Hannah appearing drunk to justify it but Hannah was just talking to God with no sound and her lips were moving.That is a very different thing. We are told numerous times in the New Testament that there will be deception and they will look like us but they will be known by their fruit.


    • Michelle says:

      Hello, I have been saved for a number of years now and I have recently joined a prayer group at church who do a number of things that I am unsure of. These people are pilars in the church so it is very difficult for me to question what they do. One of the ladies shake almost uncontrollably followed by a Word from God. Mostly words of prophesy – none of which have come to pass in my own life yet. They also do manifestations for instance: They would pretend that I am a certain individual that they want to pray for to receive finances – then they would "call in" the finances and pretend that they are pouring it out onto me for that person's benefit. In other instances they would "put a person in front of them in the spirit" who is not saved and they would pretend to remove unholy desires out of them or bind their hands and feet to do evil. What do you think of these things? I would appreciate honesty. I love the Lord so much and I don't want to do anything that is contrary to His word. I have prayed about it but have not received an answer from the Lord yet.


      • Amy Spreeman says:

        Hello Michelle,
        Thank you for writing! Yes, these are very concerning developments indeed, and the fact that the leaders of these prayers are well-respected pillars makes it very difficult for most of us to challenge or hold accountable those who are supposed to be protecting us from such dangers but who are not. When you say that you’ve prayed to the Lord for an answer and have not received one, I would like to suggest that the answers He will give you will come right from Scripture, His very breathed-out Word to us. God’s Word is supposed to be sufficient for us, rather than outside feelings or experiences. Not that feeling things is a bad thing at all! The fact that you are feeling uneasy about these practices speaks a lot about your discernment. Now what we need to do is take those feelings and compare them to what God’s Word says.

        There is so much more to say on this subject. Would you be willing to continue the conversation?
        Blessings to you,


      • Amy Spreeman says:

        Michelle, I read your note on our program today and had Pastor Randy White answer it. If you are not tuned in, the podcast will be available here:


      • Reese says:

        I would say that God has answered you in that you feel uncomfortable about them acting like this – as it should be! I can't think of any place where we're called to pray like that for each other in the Bible, either. Often when I pray and ask God for discernment or a sign, I don't 'hear' a voice in response, but I'll get this feeling in my gut I can't shake or my thoughts on that topic might change or someone else will say something relevant to me about a situation. Hope that helps some and I'll keep you in my prayers!


  17. Lin La Pla says:

    Mathew 7…21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS."
    These verses come to mind as I listened to what she was saying…


  18. Ian says:

    Michelle, the things you describe are not Biblical and have no place in Christianity. You will not find shaking in the Bible, and why is it necessary to imagine something when praying? This technique sounds like a new age or even occult practice. We are specifically told not to go beyond what is written (1 Cor 4:6). I don't believe that there is prophecy today, and the fact it hasn't come true suggests it is not from God.

    What you don't say is the degree to which the church endorses these things, but given that you say the people involved are "pillars in the church", I suspect it does to some extent. My experience is that churches which promote such things will have many other big problems, and you should seriously consider finding a new church. Otherwise you are very likely to be exposed to all manner of false teaching.

    I'm getting a message saying my comment is too long, so I will split it into two.


  19. Ian says:

    (part 2)

    It can be very difficult to raise things like this with church leaders. if you felt brave, you could arrange a meeting with your pastor and discuss what's happening in the prayer group with him. He may be unaware of it, and how he responds will give you an idea of where he is. If he says it's not right, that's a good thing. If he says it's OK, I would advise you to leave the church. If he's unsure or ambivalent, be very careful as he is open to error.

    A less direct approach is to tell your pastor that you're looking to grow in your faith and ask if he can recommend some helpful books, maybe what he is reading presently, or that set out his vision for the church. This is a good way of finding out what his influences are. If you told us what they are, we could give you some comments. You could also ask if there are any conferences, TV shows, or websites he would recommend.

    I sensed a real concern for the things of God in your post, which is excellent. I pray that the Lord will give you his wisdom and guidance as you decide what to do.


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